Alloy

It's the first time in a long time that Funcom has handled something with relative intelligence. It's also the first time in a long time Funcom has had a game with more than a couple of hours worth of content and a couple of handfuls of things to do. Here's hoping it goes well for them.

Lordkrall, on 13 December 2012 - 07:36 AM, said:

The good old Guild Wars business model.

Arquenya, on 02 December 2012 - 04:16 PM, said:

Yeah when I look at the game GW2, I see a product that was very much optimized to attract release day sales.  The game feels very much unfinished and its obvious that the majority of the attention near the end was given to the lower level content that people had access to in the betas.  The product had received a ton of hype and media attention and Anet decided to cash in at the peak of that hype.  Its unfortunate that releasing an unfinished game is perfectly acceptable in today's industry.

To answer the OP, you reap what you sow.  Anet never identified a core audience for its product, or more likely abandoned the core audience they initially appealed to and tried to appeal to "everyone".  Well they got their payday with that strategy, but they also got "everyone", and everyone actually consists of different groups of people that want very different things.

Anet is now simply living with the consequences of the decisions it made about this game.  In fact the expectations from the gamers pretty much forced Anet to take a position and declare their go-foward strategy, which I think they very much were trying to avoid.  Its kinda like a man dating two women.  For a time he gets the best of both worlds, but when they get wind of one another it really hits the fan and he's gotta choose and hope he didn't lose them both.

"But rasp, have you gone crazy? You of all people are saying that it's needed?"

Yes... In a way. See, this game was never about freedom. They were not making GW1 in MMO form. They said from the start that they were making an MMO. We should have listened.
But we didn't. Instead we paid attention to the manifesto (that we all by now know, was a pack of lies). We read the interviews. We watched the videos and jumped on every dev blog within three minutes of it being posted. And we believed it all.

Sure, there were some warning signs. Some of the things that they said didn't match up - at all. No grind in this game, but they are going to have "high, possibly infinite" level cap? And they are going to have token collection in dungeons, when it's been proven again and again that the more well defined a reward is, the less fun it is to go for it? That they would "go nuts with items" when no one wanted a gear grind? But, even those of us that thought that all this was strange, had faith. We thought that ANet would come through. That the people who created one of the most brilliant games ever would have something up their sleeves that would make it all fun.


I mean, why else would this man smile so much? Obviously he was having fun simply thinking about the game he was making. No one with a smile that desperate-looking can possibly be a fake.

And so the betas came. No, I don't mean the 2008 betas, they never existed. That was just something Gaile Gray fantasized about. Either that, or, which does not seem totally incredible after all, ANet actually had a game in almost-open-beta stage in 2008, and then decided to scrap it all and instead build an MMO based on the engine that NCSoft had purchased from a Korean company when those went bankrupt. That was around the same time as ANet stopped talking about GW2 as an update of GW1, by the way.

I mean the 2012 GW2 Beta Weekend Events. Hyped as we were, we still bought it - but by now, it felt really strange to many of us. This had a very distinct feeling of being a thoroughly generic MMO, instead of being the revolution that was promised us.

But... I'm going to ask you (yes you. you who are reading this.) to, for a second, disregard the fact that this is an MMO. Think instead of GW2 as just one of many video games. In this game, you get taught to progress. Everything you do is progress. When you unlock skills, when you level up, get skill points, get new gear, craft, it's all progress progress progress.

Numbers counting up. People get used to it. It seems as if that's what the game is about. Especially since ANet said that "the entire game is the endgame". So everyone was supposed to progress, forever.

Until we hit that wall.


Sparkly, just like the vampires in the movie of the same name.

Now I'm not like a lot of people here. I won't blame "WoW locusts" for anything. Because really, they are not WoW locusts. They are GW2 locusts. They demand nothing else than what they have been given the entire time when they played, up until a couple of weeks ago. Whatever they did, they got richer, better, stronger. And then it just stopped. They were max level, had their exotics, had nothing to do except collect karma and try to get the mapping achievement.

And unfortunately, we were wrong when we thought things about the hype. Because ANet didn't have anything up their sleeves. Grind was as boring as grind in any other game. So much so, in fact, that people would rather spend time on forums, defending the grind in the game, instead of actually being in the game doing that grind.

And then we had the recent update. Won't even go into detail about how insipid it was to have a one-time event before bug testing the event itself, nor about how dumb you have to be to schedule an invite-a-friend event at the same time as this horrid fiasco. But we did get the new ascended gear tier. The next step on the ladder. New progress. People being happy again, because they can finally go on in the game instead of standing still trying to scown together enough karma and gold to get that legendary so that they can uninstall the game already.

That is why ascended gear is necessary.

Oh, and guess what. If the next content update is balanced around exotics, people will complain to no end about how easy it is.

As a guild leader, I consider the people more important than the influence. Come see me when you want. Represent when you want. Stop begging loyalty from your members and be someone they want to be loyal to. Does an entire guild need to change or do YOU need to change?

@Larsen: The game has content and plenty of it. You simply need to look for it. What the devs intended was for players to set their own own goals after the short grind to 80. It's the kind of game where players have to meet the devs half-way, no hand-holding or carrot dangling. I'd say they did a well in keeping with that design, and I take offense to your blanket statement about those who enjoy it. I'm not going to tell you how to play since the game intends for you to figure that out for yourself but if you do want something new then there's the update in two weeks. And if you're not satisfied then maybe the game just isn't for you,

ArenaNet released more stuff soon after release: "OMG THIS SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE BEFORE RELEASE ANET FAILS!!!"
ArenaNet does not release more stuff for a few months: "OMG ARENANET NEVER RELEASES ANYTHING NEW, ANET FAILS!!!"

This is clearly a game they can't win. No matter what they do people will whine and complain.

Protoss, on 27 October 2012 - 11:35 AM, said:

I don't think people should quit when they finish the content - I think they should quit when they get bored and are no longer having fun. There's a difference.

For some people, that will be when they hit level 80 and/or finish the personal story, and that's fine. Others of us have done both and are still sticking around, having fun exploring, trying new things, and helping friends... and that's fine too.

People aren't saying to just up and quit when you hit a certain arbitrary point. We're saying there's no point playing a game that feels more like a chore than recreation.

Frankly, if someone only wants to play endgame content or do raids or whatever and they're bored of most of the content, what use will they be to new players anyway? I don't see how losing people who realistically aren't going to group with them anyway damages new players' experience at all. It's not like the people who are quitting out of endgame boredom would otherwise have been coming back to run around with level 5s.

Also, keep in mind there are new box sales happening all the time, too. People who leave are being replaced - not at the same rate as initial sales, which are always higher, but not at an insignificant rate either.

In my opinion, you greatly overestimate the number of people who will even notice such things or be affected by them. There is no "controversy", no great drama.

The "power-gamer-speed-clear-I-love-to-grind" people are a small minority (who are disproportionately loud of course, especially here)... and they are not A-net's target audience. Don't expect things to change in their favour unless it's a by-product of stuff done in favour of the majority.

It is a bit annoying but not the end of the world.  "Oh noes I can't get zone completion on this map! Whatever will I do?"

Oh I know. I'll just come back when they fix it.

At some point, I begin to really wonder if people are not understanding that no game will ever be "MmoIplayedfirst/lovedthemost2". This game didn't hook you like EQ and WoW? Ever consider that MAYBE it isn't the game, and that maybe you're burned out, or you've lost your mmo virginity and are now jaded and unable to capture the magic again because it's all played out? Everyone wants every new game to be a replica of some past addiction + new stuff of its own to go one step further; and then when it isn't they're dismayed and call the new game out for failing some way. Pre-conceived notions and loaded expectations from past games and past times in your life are NOT the games fault. They're your own issues, and I'm afraid no new game can readily solve that.

It's like being insulted or mad if someone opens a door for you.

At present, there's not a lot of friends building in GW2 because being helpful to each other seems to be built into the game:

-can't let someone have a resource node, because everyone has access
-can't kill steal
-can't gank someone while they are on a difficult escort quest
-don't invite to a group because there's really no need or reason when going out and about in the world

So, I'll take what ever meager morsels of possible human action left in the game over not having it at all.

So help me kill that which could kill me, I shall consider it "as a way, a convenience, a kindness."

Arquenya, on 20 September 2012 - 02:56 PM, said:

Lol were in the same boat here. IMO, is the game perfect? - no. Is the game fun? - yes. Fanboys will bash you for the first one and call you a hater, haters call you a fanboy and bash you for the latter

I hear a lot of whining on the forums. Okay, fair enough, I expect that. However, these people that have problems with the game towards the point that they regret their purchase are beginning to think that they are part of the majority. They couldn't be more wrong.

I'd just like to take a moment here to say something for the silent majority.

We love this game.
We're having lots of fun.
Yeah, there are some bugs that suck, but for the most part, it's a great way to spend a few hours.

Sorry if you thought we didn't like it, but we do. Sorry if you thought ANet is losing customers left and right, but they aren't. They have us. So whine. Complain and threaten and troll and do whatever you wish. Just know that you are a minority, a hedge case, and just because you don't love this game, doesn't mean we don't.

I'm not saying this game is perfect. I'm saying that I agree with the design decisions and the direction. If you don't, please play something else, because you're going to ruin it for us.

**edit for clarity**

I've played a lot of games past the 200 hour mark, and had a great time doing so, but none of them maintain much novelty at that point.  Why do we expect GW2 to be any different?  I've got at least 500 hours in playing Team Fortress 2, for instance, and I'm still basically doing the same thing I did when I started:  Logging on and shooting people.  Now, TF2 has updates, most of them incremental, that provide little bits of novelty, but my primary activity is still the same (well, until Mann Vs. Machine anyway, which was a major departure).

For a closer comparison, look at WoW.  Yeah, you have little things you can go and do that provide novelty, but you're still doing a lot of grinding and repeating.  

Yet the people who are bored are saying that all there is to do is more of the same.  I'm not saying you shouldn't be bored.  If you're bored, you're bored, and that's that, but I'd argue that it's not novelty you're after ("There's nothing left to do!"), it's something else.  Maybe you're the type that always needs a bar to fill (you're goal-oriented).  Or maybe you're the gamer who finds the existing content too easy (you're looking for more challenge).  There's plenty left to DO for 90% of you, you just may not care for whatever that is.

For the social gamer, as long as this game is up, there's something to do.  For the lore-hounds, there's a ton of crap that you can't possibly have exhausted (go learn New Krytan and translate ALL THE WORDS).  For the PVPer, go and kill kill kill until carpal tunnel ends your career.

GW2 is a different sort of game that appeals to different sorts of people, and that's okay.  Those of you who have done all you wanted to do, congrats!  You have free time now, and there's a ton of shit out there in the rest of the world to do, even if it's just more video games. GW2 will still be there for you, free of charge, until ANet puts out new content.

As for those of you that plain think the game sucks, well that's unfortunate, but it happens.  But I have to ask you, why are you coming here to complain about it?  I bought Pokemon Conquest and hated it.  I didn't go find a Pokemon forum to tell everyone.  I just gave the game to my nephew (who loves it) and bought Guild Wars 2 instead (and if you're broke and you don't have the cash, go shoot some hoops at the local rec center, or find something else you might like to do).

TL;DR You're bored.  And?

iwhite, on 18 September 2012 - 12:07 AM, said:

This is why you're having problems : Don't be pure DPS in dungeons. Going in with 5 people all 100% set for killing is going to end badly. Everyone needs to consider all options. Everyone needs to consider the team as a whole, and everyone needs to bring some control or support as well as damage. This is what PUGs just don't get, and it's why they often fail hard.

Toughness is not to play tank. It's to help you survive a few more hits. Even on the toughest profession, with a full investment in toughness, you can't just sit there soaking up hits. It doesn't work in SM on AC, it certainly won't work anywhere harder.

Finally, you need flexibility. You need to adjust your builds based on what you'll be fighting. Some bosses might need you to focus more on damage, others may need a ton of control. While running back to the boss after death, you can change your skills and major traits - use this opportunity.

I've done most of the story modes, and half the explorable modes without any kind of trinity (holy or otherwise), just organized players who think through tactics rather than cookie-cutter their way through.