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Alberel

Member Since 13 Apr 2012
Offline Last Active Nov 21 2012 10:35 AM

#1981989 Classes need balance the amazing one-shot thread

Posted Skolops on 30 September 2012 - 06:13 PM

People need to stop with this nonsense that the fact that you can dodge makes it OK for an attack to do 100% of someone's HP in a single hit.  This isn't even a class balance issue - its a problem of overall game balance.  It shouldn't be possible and it ruins the game.

I don't even think its necessary to go into all the reasons why "dodge!" is a stupid response, but I will anyways.  First of all, the game is not about 1v1s.  It's about multiplayer battles of various sorts, and so no, you're not always going to be able to dodge everything or even see everything that you ought to dodge coming your way.  Of course, this has been true in MMOs for a long time, but without the 75 - 100%+ HP hits.  If someone can get a good hit on you when you aren't expecting it, good for them.  When someone can 1 shot you or take 2/3 of your HP in one hit just because you aren't expecting it, that's absurd and just isn't either fun or reliant in these least on skill.  Heck, it even takes away from the dodge mechanic itself because, well, now that you're dead you're not going to be doding very much, now are you?  

Second, its really not that hard to immobilize or stun someone before landing one of these hits - especially in a multiplayer fight where they may have already had to spend any CC breaks they have.  

I could go on but its not really worth it.  I like this game, but honestly anyone who thinks this isn't a problem has got to be in denial or just practicing fanboyism. It needs to be fixed.


#1965785 Everyone else regret their main?

Posted Howl on 25 September 2012 - 03:15 AM

View PostRed Intensity, on 25 September 2012 - 02:59 AM, said:

Oh yes. The mesmer can't kill for crap, and I can forget about tagging mobs in crowded DE's for any loot. And no one wants a mesmer in a dungeon group, as everyone is basically looking for either a soldier class or engineer. Kinda wish I stuck with the engineer on head start.

That's just not true, Mesmer can do all of those things REALLY well, especially dungeon, and I'm always wanted in every group, I don't stop getting compliments about my damage and support.

Enjoying my Power/CritDmg Mesmer a whole lot.


#1913772 Elementalist vs ranger comparison.

Posted Viperx07 on 10 September 2012 - 09:17 PM

No, I'm just sharing my experience and confirming what other people are saying, that in fact it's true that other classes are so much more powerful/easier to play.

My point is, if you are struggling and not having fun anymore, reroll to a different class. Eles are truly UP, it's not a myth.


#1952461 Why is our damage so god awful?

Posted masterloup on 20 September 2012 - 04:47 PM

Quote

Again your inability to grasp the classes core design does not equal a bad class.
Oh? And staff is support according to who exactly? Who (and how did said person) came up with this conclusion? Because when i look at the staff skills it doesn't scream support

Fire doesn't offer any support.
Water has a chill, 1 heal and 1 regen. Well S/D had 2 heal. I guess S/D is support too. D/D has 1 chill and 2 heal, well crap, now every weapn is support
Air : We have a blind a knockback and a stun. D/D has a knockback and a stun(when hit) I guess D/D is support to. S/D has a knockback and a blind, Whelp, support.
Earth : We have 1 root and 1 cripple. Well D/D has 1 root, 1 cripple and 1 knockdown. S/D has 1 blind 1 knockback and 1 cripple. support.
(don't even get me started on focus)

So according to your logic, Every single weapon for elementalist are all meant to be support and only support. Whoever came up with the conclusion that staff is meant to be only support is a moron. What's even more awesome is the knockdowns from dagger offhands, heals from S/D. blinds from scepter are all better than staff. support huh?

Inb4 argument about 1200 range as if it meant anything other than prove ele's are too squishy to go in melee range without a crapton of vit/toughness

Quote

Btw, decent pvp opponents hate seeing a D/D elementalist coming their way.  I run a tank D/D build in tPvP, and I can guarantee that it takes 2-3 guys to drop me.  The reason I run the tank build, is because I don't care how much damage I can do in tPvP. I want to live longer than you.

You'd do your team a favor if you rerolled warrior or guardian tank or even necro.


#1952228 Why is our damage so god awful?

Posted lolotrickedu on 20 September 2012 - 03:47 PM

View PostAnam Itheoir, on 20 September 2012 - 03:46 PM, said:

Your concept of an elementalist does not equal reality.  Elementalist is not a mage.  Quit trying to play it like one.  Nowhere did Anet ever claim that the elementalist is a long range nuker.  It says master of elements.  We absolutely have amazing damage with the right weapons.  Quit playing glass cannon staff, guardians can't play glass cannon staff and be effective at all.

Your inability and unwillingness to understand a different core concept does not mean a class is broken.



Guardians can either go full on damage weapons or weapons with control or defensive weapons or offensive weapons.  A guardian can either take a licking and keep on ticking or blow all cd's to blow something up.  Guardians can be offensive juggernaughts, but they are better off being combo field layers with amazing self heals.  

Running glass cannon sword/Torch with all defensive utilities is the most common practice.  You run that build or the triple meditation (awesomeness) build, and you can keep up with a good D/D ele.  The difference is you can't switch mid run from self healing to group healing, to control, back to full on burst damage, without sacrificing every single bit of damage.  I know I have played a guardian.

And nowhere in the description did it say that we're completely reliant on conjured weapons to do equal damage to other classes.


#1944929 Class Selection: Guardian or Elementalist?

Posted FFForever on 18 September 2012 - 07:15 PM

thief with x2 heartseekers do 10k or more, warrior with 100b can do 10k or more every 8 sec, ele do 10k every 45 sec cause cd on FG


#1934445 I'm critting for 1/5th a warrior with pure dps spec

Posted Leto on 15 September 2012 - 02:32 PM

I play a warrior. A few minutes ago I was farming L80 mobs in Frostgorge Sound. Near me there were 2 elementalists farming the same mobs. While I was just destroying them (including the veterans), not caring at all about getting hit, I could see that they were having a really hard time killing them. One had to constantly circle around them to avoid getting hit, and it was taking him/her forever to kill, the other almost died trying to kill one of those very common mobs. I don't know, maybe they were just bad players, but the difference with my warrior was so huge, I almost felt embarrassed. Plus the fact that I'm using a greatsword, which for a warrior is probably the most retarded thing. I leveled using 2 axes, and really enjoyed it, then finally decided to try the greatsword. It didn't take me long to see why most warriors are using that weapon. 1 single GS skill (100 blades obviously) is the equivalent and does as many damages as all my 2 axes skills put together. It really is a 1 button profession. Stupidly easy and stupidly OP. Unless it's the elementalist profession that needs some serious tweaking. At the start of this game playing an elementalist was my original intention, but seeing all those complains, on this forum and on others, I quickly changed my mind.


#1915125 When will the elementalists get fixed?

Posted NuclearDonut on 11 September 2012 - 02:47 AM

Elementalist complaints are valid, and anyone who thinks the class doesn't need work hasn't played enough of it. We're bad in both damage and defense. Most classes have 3 general build types: Pure Damage, Pure Defense/Condition Damage/Outlasting, and a balance of both. No matter what build type an Ele chooses, he/she will always be severely handicapped. If I roll Glass Cannon, I can do damage equal to a balanced build on other classes, yet I die if I get sneezed on, where the other classes still have solid defense. If I roll defense/condition damage (which is the Ele's strongest build type right now) I can survive with some skill, but my damage sucks and I still die pretty quickly if I make a mistake, whereas a Guardian can pump out huge damage and still tank. If I go for a balanced, I suck at everything. There isn't anything broken about the Ele, it really just comes down to number tweaking, it shouldn't be hard to fix.


#1875063 So I have been reading a lot of this...

Posted AMradio on 04 September 2012 - 01:41 AM

View PostFrancisCrawford, on 04 September 2012 - 12:33 AM, said:

It seems as if staff is the best designed weapon set for PvE. If we agree that the biggest problems in PvE arise when you have 3 or more mobs to fight at once, that's what staff is tuned for.

In particular, there's no reason to lose to a melee gank in PvE, because if the enemies gather around you all your AoE hits, unless the numbers on you are truly ridiculous. (I have the same problems everybody else does in the personal story, or if I find myself alone in a dynamic-event fight.) I imagine other professions can say the same thing. The harder cases are when there are 2 or more shooters hitting from range, one 1 shooter and several meleers.

The issue with staff is it has a very high recharge outside of fire.  And the fire skills are rather weak.  So the end result is kiting forever while cycling through attunements just trying to stay alive.  To make it worse, attunements go on 15 sec recharge too until you get enough points in arcane.  The class is ownd by cooldowns on just about everything except like..Eruption.  But Eruption takes so freakin long to activate that its very hard to hit a mob with it unless you get them to stay put for..like 5 seconds.

This is compounded with the fact that everything in staff basically needs to be channeled if its going to kill something, and mobs love to daze/knock you down/etc at the worst times.  Basically its a circus unless you go S/D and just go bonkers with might spam.  But then its basically kill before being killed, which works in most situations except ones where archer mobs are everywhere.


#1866843 Whats the point of progressing in this game?

Posted rlh445 on 02 September 2012 - 03:36 PM

Man, will this topic ever go away or what?  I mean the phrase, 'Can I have your stuff?,' is as appropriate as it ever was.  If you don't understand the point of progressing your character in Guild Wars 2, coming to the forums to start a flame-baity topic isn't going to answer your question for you.  You should be in the game exploring new things and FINDING things that make you want to progress.  I sure as heck have.  74 Guardian, six levels away from cap and I'm nowhere near done really anything in the game.  I still have 70% of the map to complete, I've yet to come across a Rare, let alone an Exotic, I've only downed three dragons so far, I haven't run a single dungeon, I WANT MY LEGENDARY and at some point I'm going back to Fireheart's Rise to pay back those stupid Canyon Spiders for chain-CCing me when I ran through as a lowly 60.  That's not even a full list, just all I cared to type out ATM.  To be honest, your goals should have surfaced the very day you started playing.  They haven't, that's too bad and I'm sorry.  You can always come back later.


#1865676 Whats the point of progressing in this game?

Posted Lord_Demosthene on 02 September 2012 - 09:28 AM

View Postmuniek, on 01 September 2012 - 10:48 PM, said:


...

What is the point of playing the mmorpg where you dont gain strenght trough progress? Isnt it reduced to a tedious slow walking around participating in same looking combat over and over again just to unlock points and gather materials to create items which are useless cause your stats are being equalised with area?

Then you go to pvp and you are again being equalised with everyone else. Where is the RPG element in gw2?

Got a few questions for you:

a) what's the point of playing a GAME?
B) what does "RPG element" have to do with grind and power discrepancy in PvP?
c) why do you complain about exploration and events feeling like a "checklist to do", if all you basically do is look at the map and think "Oh wait, I haven't been here yet, let's go there and write this one off the list once it's done"?

The game is what you make of it. If you play the game in an unfun, uninspiring and stupid way, then you'll get unfun, uninspired and stupid gameplay.


#1863857 Whats the point of progressing in this game?

Posted Kraag_Deadsoul on 01 September 2012 - 11:52 PM

View Postmuniek, on 01 September 2012 - 10:48 PM, said:

If you are being equalised with the area or other players wherever you go?

Im leveling, gaining new items etc. and i feel as weak as i was before... Whats rewarding in this game? Is this still mmorpg? I dont feel like playing mmorpg in gw2 :/ Its definitely mmo, but hardly rpg cause i dont feel ANY character development... Maybe mmo-exploration is the genre gw2 belongs to?

I cant enjoy the story cause im to old for this kind of story telling gw2 offers so its stripped down to running around unlocking "i was there" points with tedious repeating weak combat that never gives you feeling of being powerfull even tho you theoretically got better weapons, armors and level. On top of that you dont even get new abilities, cause you are stuck with 5 weapon skills.

So let me ask again:

What is the point of playing the mmorpg where you dont gain strenght trough progress? Isnt it reduced to a tedious slow walking around participating in same looking combat over and over again just to unlock points and gather materials to create items which are useless cause your stats are being equalised with area?

Then you go to pvp and you are again being equalised with everyone else. Where is the RPG element in gw2?

What is rewarding about this game?
  • Reviving someone who has been downed or defeated, helping them get back into the fight.
  • Rallying when your consciousness meter is just about at zero, returning to the fray, and beating the enemy.
  • Interrupting an enemy who was just inches away from sending you to defeat with a "Finish Them!" move.
  • Joining a Dynamic Event in progress and helping the players currently engaged in it to turn the tide of battle in their favor.
  • Returning to a lower zone, downscaling, and helping a others through a tough Dynamic Event.
  • Assiting someone with their Personal Story.
  • Uncovering a new crafting recipe.
  • Completing a difficult jumping puzzle.
  • Standing at the top of the jumping puzzle and cheering on those below you are trying to make their way to the top.
  • Answering a new player's, "How do I do XYZ?" chat message.
  • Exploring the world, allowing yourself to get lost in it.
  • Completing a Dynamic Event and then sticking around to follow an NPC to see what new branch in the chain will spawn.
  • Helping some random person you don't know and reading, "Thank you", in chat.
  • Unlocking traits and skill points as you work towards your ideal build.
  • Testing out new builds and weapon combinations that you may not have thought at first to try.
  • Creating a new character using a different profession than the previous one.
  • Battling your way through a dungeon with a group of people who know how to work as a team.
  • Building relationships with guildmates and players in your friends list.
  • Earning your first Legendary.
  • Winning a round in WvWvW.
What isn't rewarding about this game?
  • Grinding your way through the Renowned Hearts and Dynamic Events in the fastest, most efficient way possible in an effort to reach level 80 in the shortest amount of time in the belief that doing so is the point of playing the game.
This isn't to say the OP's points aren't valid; for him.  As his opinion, he's entitled to it.  However, if what I listed above as some of the potential rewards of this game are not his definition of reward, then I'm afraid GW2 really isn't his kind of game.  If - after looking through that list - your reaction is, "Meh...", or, "I could care less about any of those things", then save yourself $60 and don't buy GW2 because you will be disappointed.


#1809512 Elementalists are not compensated enough for their difficulty to play.

Posted winteralchemist on 24 August 2012 - 07:39 PM

Maybe it is just me but our utility skills feel a little less impactful than other classes.  They can really change the way a class plays and I don't get that feeling from Eles.  It is almost like the real utility it wrapped into the 20 different weapon skills.  Now at first you might think thats awesome what could possibly be the problem. It is like we are still balance around having twice as many damaging weapon skills that we don't really have.  Also the increase in number of 'utility' skills doesn't necessarialy mean they are the same effectiveness.  Especially considering there is no way you can trait into all of them in a way to make them all beneficial in a given build.

A burst damage specced Ele isn't getting much out oh his water support abilities.  Just like a burst warrior won't get much support out of his shouts.  But lucky for the warrior he isn't balanced around having access to those shouts and can instead take utilities that benefit his role and spec.  So it feels like we are balanced like we have half our utilities at a given time no matter how ineffective they might be.  Sure this is versatility, but it is not meaningful versatility and we shouldn't be as penalized for it.


#1797579 Elementalists are not compensated enough for their difficulty to play.

Posted Unspecified on 23 August 2012 - 04:22 PM

View PostSwickster, on 23 August 2012 - 04:14 AM, said:

I said base armor values are minimal, Ele's base armor is 1836 Thief's is 1980 and guardian's is 2127
thats only a 291 armor diference from cloth to heavy, that's not a huge difference and is easily substituted. And my point about the hp thing is this:
If You have 30k hp but take 1k hp a second, and can only heal 5k hp every 25 seconds, assuming you use your heal at 25k hp for best results
you go from :
30k-29k-28k-27k-26k-25k-29k-28k-27k-26k-25k-24k-23k-22k-21k-20-19k-18k-17k-16k-15k-14k-13k-12k-11k-10k-9k-8k-7k-6k-5k-9k-8k-7k-6k-5k-4k-3k-2k-1k-dead. 40 seconds from full to dead.

Now if you have ~16k hp as an ele and are again taking 1k DPS a second, yours looks like this if your using GoEH with S/D

16k-15k-14k-13k-12k-11k-15k(GoEH 25 sec's till reuse)14k-14k(Water trident goes on 20 sec CD)-13k-13k(Cleansing wave goes on CD)-12k-11k-10k-9k-8k-7k-6k-5k-4k-4k(Water trident off CD)-3k-2k-1k(GoEH)-5k-4k-3k-2k-1k- from full to dead in 30 seconds.

I have no real dispute with your point here, but it does seem like you aren't considering cast times and the reward for time use.  The elementalist is casting 5 heals and still dying 10 seconds earlier than the person who used 2 heals (based on your outline).  Given a average 1-2 second cast/animation time that is about 3-6 extra seconds the elementalist is actively spending trying not to die but still dying 10 seconds earlier (would actually be even earlier since he would take damage while healing).

In a game without a limited resource (e.g. mana, energy, stamina, etc...) the defacto resource is time.  At any given second (or millisecond if you prefer) there is a theoretically optimal action that a player should be taking.  By taking any action (including no action) a player is 'spending time' and the resource is exhausted.  The goal of any player who wants to excel in any game is always to optimally spend the resources available, in this case time.  Just like in a turn based game you want to make the optimal choices on each turn given the intrinsically limited number of turns (resource exhaustion) available.  In a real time game things aren't any different except instead of turns you have (milli)seconds.

The elementalist happens to be absolutely terrible at efficiently spending time on actions.  This is illustrated clearly in your example where the elementalist has to spend 5-10 seconds healing, as opposed to 2-4, to be able to die 10 seconds sooner.

If you actually put the character from your first example against the elementalist from your second example assuming they each are doing the 1k dps to each other it's rather obvious the elementalist loses.  Especially when you create dps voids at the times where the opponent is healing.  This problem gets more compounded the more real game mechanics you introduce.

Elementalists also suffer heavily in their damage when you approach it from a 'reward for time spent' perspective.  Many of the elementalists most damaging abilities require setup time and/or pairing with other abilities to function (e.g. the CC requirement of many staff abilities to actually hit).  After you factor in cast/animation times and the setup/CC requirement for elementalist abilities the amount of time spent for the payoff from any particular ability does not stack up.  On average the elementalist will require 1.5x to 2x the amount of time to receive the same reward as other professions.  Most of this is actually a result of most elementalist abilities only doing one thing (support, damage, or control) and the rare ability that does more than one thing does those things so poorly it's barely worth the time expenditure.

This all leads to that feeling of "more work" or "extra difficulty" that people are complaining about.  You spent twice as much time, push 2-3 times as many buttons and still barely get the same results as other professions.

The 'versatility' argument doesn't really hold up either.  It doesn't matter how many things you could theoretically do in a given second if none of them are very good.  Elementalists can't do more things per second than another class.  In fact they generally get to do less per second.  The best way to explain this is to assume you had access to the abilities of multiple classes at the same time (the abilities would individually be augmented by a profession appropriate build).  You still can only use one ability at a time you just have more options.  I think you'll find that when trying to decide on the optimal choice for any given second the elementalist abilities are rarely, if ever, the most optimal ability to use because other professions' abilities are quite simply more time efficient.  They give better rewards for the cast/animation time cost.


#1791280 Been a mage my whole MMO career....

Posted gamedo6 on 22 August 2012 - 11:33 PM

View PostXbuster231, on 22 August 2012 - 11:31 PM, said:

This is not a mage, its a elementalist

There is no magic damage, every ability does the same type of damage on every class

There's no backline nuker , there's no roles, every class is a little bit of everything

hope this informed you

im still waiting to know what stone armor is... please let me know