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sanctuaireMember Since 30 Apr 2012
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Posted MazingerZ on 25 February 2014 - 05:35 PM
This I take a bit of an issue with. Its one thing to solicit information on classes. Its another to probably ask for help on dungeon design. It's like a gamemaster asking his players how to make encounters more challenging. There's feedback and then there's actually asking for proposals.
The gamemaster is supposed to have a deeper level of knowledge about constructing challenges and encounters and be aware of how players are leveraging their tools to beat the previous challenges. ArenaNet's not just the gamemaster, but they made the rules and can change the rules. To a certain extent, they should have a very good idea of what to do, but CDIs like this betray... if not a total lack of understanding in how to design their game, a severe disconnect on how their players are playing the game.
Posted ChuyDog08 on 18 February 2014 - 12:50 AM
Posted Phadde on 16 February 2014 - 11:07 PM
Just look at the two other parts of the combat: Control and Support. There is virtually no emphasis on those in PvE.
Posted master21 on 14 February 2014 - 07:15 PM
You: Friendly fire works well in shooters, not in rpg "magic" styles.
Beyond Freedom: It worked pretty well in Neverwinter Nights, which is about as "RPG magic style" as it gets.
Truth is that you just tried to dodge his counter argument.
RPG games with friendly fire. I don't remeber any mmo but there are couple of crpgs.
Dragon age series on harder levels. Still friendly fire only from aoe spells, from cleave was small. But this game
1) has pause so you can aim with any precision
2) you don't fight more than 10 enemies often
Elders scrolls games has friendly fire.
Did you ever tried in skyrim fight on some events with whatever spawned (vampires for example) with guards? Omg you will hit them, you instead of fight need to babysit those stupid ai because they always run infront of you so you can hit them. Also weapons there does not have cleave, and still you will hit something you dont' want to.
It's stupid but in skyrim it's easier, way, hell way way way easier to fight alone.
This type of combat works on small scale. Duels, fights with 2-3 at once it works. Everything more and it's just pure mess. You either slash like mad around you or by mistake hit some guard with whatever.
Is this fun? Not much for me, that's why I've always play in their games as stealth ninja.
Now let's transfer friendly fire to gw2.
Let's take some event. Whatever really. Ppl stay in range and damage for example golem mark II. They need to stay all over the place in circle. You want to move left or right to avoid whatever? Bad luck, some mate just throw fireball in your ass, you just entered his line of shot!
You are bulky warrior with big sword. You want to smash things. Too bad, impossible, ppl just nuke boss from distance. You either dead by aoes, arrow, bullets or fireballs. Even Phantasm want to kill you (Now imagine phantasmal warden which blocks your own party projectiles or phantasmal berskerkers which damage each other, so much fun). Great. So much fun.
Friendly fire is one of the most important design decisions when doing game because turning it on must impact mechanic. With friendly fire you need to tune down something, try to avoid massive fights because it change combat to chaos, try to change map and fight design to more tactical way, you don't want ppl to just round like mad in circles, you need to even sometimes show from where mobs go so ppl can position.
If you don't have friendly fire you can just plain go rampage. More booms, more explosiong, more devasting aoe type of skills and weapons. You focus on havoc, on destuction on damage.
That's why left for dead has friendly fire and mass effect 3 does not have it. In first is more like stick together watch every side, don't run like stupid, cover you parties and look at what you are shooting.
In second you have plain destruction. You can charge, explode, make combinations explosions and use massive aoe damage powers.
If you look at lore this lack of friendly fire does not have any sens at all, but in terms of gameplay it works, instead of babysitting you can unleash your powers.
GW 2 was designed without friendly fire in mind. It's probably impossible to redesign it to have it. It would be easier to just do another game.
IMO friendly fire most of the time break fun and limits me. It has place in more tactical "realistic" types of games but not in everything.
Posted Xephyr on 11 February 2014 - 03:45 PM
Posted Datenshi92 on 10 February 2014 - 05:57 AM
General consensus seems to agree that Warrs are the running joke of this game on how easy they can steamroll over PvE vs other classes who dedicate the same amount of time and skill (and still feel inferior). Not that Warr requires that much player skills to win anyway but you know what I mean!
You know what's the source of all this? ANet not wanting to separate PvE from PvP. Its impossible to balance skill usage and power in PvE when all the base complaints you get come from people who probably got their rear end handed to them in PvP! It just sounds like a nice excuse for ANet to kick the ball from one side to another without actually fixing anything in the long run.
"We need an excuse to keep releasing patches, you know, to pretend we're doing something between each LS release... The topic is 'balance'. So tell me, what lucky profession are we going to kick down the pit and how are we going to do it?" *The dev says as he steeples his fingers with a devilish grin on his face*
Posted rukia on 31 January 2014 - 05:15 AM
Posted Brizna on 01 February 2014 - 02:23 AM
Posted Bryant Again on 26 December 2013 - 06:59 PM
Maybe a lot of it was due to preconceptions, but the idea of having a huge questchain surrounding the White Mantle and my parents' death - or perhaps a bittersweet search for my sister - sounded way more appealing than the end product.
Posted The_Blades on 26 September 2013 - 07:01 PM
First off, you can disable auto-attack for your 1 key ability, you can enable it I think for every single key, or at least 1-5, but also have it all disabled. Secondly, there are the types of skills you talked about from GW1, there's blindness, which lowers the enemies chance to hit, increasing your survivability chance, interupts via knockdown, stun (which also disables them completely), or knockbacks (which put them out of melee range so that if you're a range player fighting a melee enemy you have the advantage of hitting them so more while they can't hit you till they get back in range).
You can trap an enemy in place so they can't move at all, or cripple them to slow them(for the same effect as knockbacks, kind of), as well as bleeding (which does damage over time so if you're unable to attack but applied bleeding that can save your life by finishing the enemy off while you're disabled), and fumble, which reduces the enemy's damage by 50%.
All of these debuffs can be applied to you, they're called "conditions". There's also boons, which are positive effects, some increase your defense, some damage, some heal you over time. I know the shield allows you to block your opponent, while dagger air elementalist can put a shield around them that stuns enemies that hit them, and I know there's more I can't remember right now. So, where's this lack of depth you speak of?
Also, from my experience, while elite skills make you more powerful and increase your health, depending on the elite skill, they're definitely not "FREAKING NUKING THE WORLD WOOOOOOO" type abilities. More like, "I'M NOW APPROXIMATELY 50% MORE POWERFUL RAAAAAAAAH!!!!" abilities.
And I did play Gw1 years ago.......for like, 30 minutes before uninstalling and never playing it again. I don't remember why, this was back when I was a teen playing wow, but I remember hating the fact that I couldn't jump. I think something just felt off about the combat in that game.
Just because things have the same name it doesnt mean they are the same in both games.
Ok, you can disable auto-attack... how does that change anything? really, i cant see the diference, is it because you have to press 1 three times?
in GW1 blind was a completely diferent mechanic, sometimes for the worst, others for the best. In gw1 blind caused the enemy to have 90% chance of missing the attack, it was active for a given duration, not that long, and it was countered in several ways: condition removal, condition transfering, equipment mods that reduced applied condition times and ofcourse waiting it out. this added depth.
In gW2 blind gives a 100% fail chance, and ends after the attack fails. so people just autoattack through blinds, because its a bit irrelevantm unless with certain skills that use a blind field (engie smoke bomb for instance) theres no counter to blind except cond removal, but it doesnt even matter because autoattack clears it. also, on bosses its a mere 20% fail chance... basically useless in pve outside off big balls of mobs farming.
cripple: cripple is basically the same in GW1 and gW2, not much more to be said.
in GW1 poison applied degen, 4 pips which correspond, if memory serves, to 8 hp loss per second. there were several skills to use poison, but one of the most notable was a ranger skill called Apply Poison, the poison duration scalled with the atributes, usually around 10-13 seconds, and it was an invaluable tool to apply presure to a team, keeping a team poisoned was a great way to win games. In pve poison was also widely used on degen builds to great effect, including farms (ranger fow forest farmer for instance).
Poison did not stack (no stacking of conditions or any other thing in GW1)
In gW2 you have a condition that stacks in duration, give some damage, also not that much, but hinders healing. which is a great feature of gW2 poison, usefull in pvp... as for pve... not relevant at all, if we take into consideration how conditions work in gW2.
GW1- same as poison.
GW2- Stacks of white numbers, same problems, has the advantage of how easy it is to apply.
Now lets get to the juicy elements that REALLY suck in gW2 and excelled in GW1 - interrupts (ill put knockdowns here to.
GW1- Interrupts were a MAJOR part of the game, particularly in pvp. Interrupt a B-surge... invaluable to your frontline. Rupt a diversion, GJ, mesmer wasted energy and we caught a possibly very damaging skill. You could interrupt with a knockdown, but more important than that, there were builds that specialized in keeping enemies on the ground (and they had counters, because the game had such mechanics that no build was invincible). There was also this condition called Daze, very very powerfull, very costly to use and most of the times very hard to land, this was an anti caster condition, making every spell fail if the caster was hit whille dazed.
GW2- Asside from interrupting other players heals... i see no advantage... you cant really tell what the hell the other guy is doing, ok it has a long activation.. but what is it?
PVE.... does it matter? nope, not one bit.
Confusion: there was no confusion in GW1, there were hexes that caused damage on action, depending on the action, Empathy caused damage on attack, Visions of regret caused damage on skill usage, etc etc. Confusion is indiscriminate. Its not worst or better, its different.
Now for the Boons.. they are interesting for the most part, a bit of a side effect of gameplay than actually planed execution of well timed effects to skillfully change the way of the fight.its ahrd to explain where im trying to get. let me go the other way around, in GW1 boons were obviously enchants, ill go with the easier to explain, Reversal of Fortune. it was cheap to cast, fast to recharge and a life saver or energy destroyer, it lasted for 8 seconds on the guy you casted it on, meaning it was possible to perma mantain in anyone. What It did was converting the damage that would be taken into health gain (limited according to atribute points). But, if a monk spammed it... it would lose the battle for sure, because he couldnt mantain the energy... so... monks had to chose when to use, on who to use and wether or not they actually could use, bear in mind that the monk could have up to 7 guys relying on him. In gW2 it doesnt matter if you cast protection on the party or not.. it doesnt recycle fast enough, the agro mechanics suck, and if a guy gets downed you can rez him up in no time. EDIT: And there is no freaking downside of using it, eliminating choice and strategy, its IRRELEVANT!
abit too long i guess...
Posted El Duderino on 26 September 2013 - 03:06 PM
Then there's the air dagger elementalist, you can double hit multiple enemies within a few feet of you with a long whip using your main attack, you also have a knockback, an aoe damaging charge, as well as an instant largely damaging aoe ability that only hits targets within a certain range around you. And that's just some of their abilities.
Honestly, if the classes playstyles all feel literally the same to you than I don't think there's any way combat in any mmo could feel different to you, unless they gave you motion control somehow. Or using your voice to command your character to attack. I'll be honest and say that I find it extremely hard to believe that you can't find any variation between the different profs and weapons. Do some feel the same? Sure, hammer warrior and guardian are barely different at all, but no variation between any class/weapon at all?
See, this is such a shallow way of thinking: hitting buttons kills things. Presto! Good game!
Did you ever play Guild Wars 1? Do you even understand that there could be other things other than pushing buttons and killing things?
How about protection enchantments that prevent 50% of melee attacks? What about elementalists that can blind melee so they have like a 10% chance of hitting? (Hell that skill was so good it was an elite) What about hexes, like diversion, that when used well, caught a monk's elite skill and crippled their ability to keep their team alive? What about knocking over a target to interrupt them or to keep them from capping a flag stand in time? What about sacrificing health and an elite skill slot to give energy to your team? Oh, that's right, we don't even have energy management in this game.
None of those skills above did any damage to enemies, yet they were all very powerful and important skills in certain builds. In fact, I don't think there was a mesmer that ever went in to PvP that didn't have diversion. It was THAT good of a skill. Hell, it could have been an elite for what it did.
You just can't take the kind of depth a game like that provides and compare it to a game that basically equates spamming your keyboard with giant red numbers on the screen and think that the latter provides any kind of interesting combat.
There is literally very few meaningful choices to make in combat in Guild Wars 2 - and that is the problem. Games are the only entertainment outlet where we get to have choices. Therefore, being able to make interesting choices is what defines games from the rest of entertainment. If you don't have meaningful choices to make, then you haven't made a good game. As such, in GW2, regardless of whether you like the pretty animation that happens when you hit 1-5 on your keyboard, the fact remains that 95% of the time, that skill is doing one thing: damage to the enemy. Furthermore, you don't even need to worry about when to use it because the game tells you - as soon as it is ready after recharge. No energy management or exhaustion mechanics to worry about!
Not only that, but the game is designed so poorly from an AI perspective, that if you aren't doing DPS, you are doing your team a disservice. Sure, an Elementalist can heal - but it isn't effective. The best defense in this game is having a good offense. There is no substitute or balance to DPS in this game. It simply doesn't provide ANY interesting choices when it comes to combat. Even PvP is based around running around and capping shrines simply because having actual PvP where players engage each other in combat wouldn't work because combat is so bad.
So, when you actually dig in to the mechanics of combat, and don't keep thinking about how much you like the game and try to defend it simply because that is your opinion - you will realize that the mechanics of combat are lazy as it relates to game design.
Posted raspberry jam on 25 September 2013 - 05:09 PM
Having more vitality supposedly makes you less of a "threat", but still a hit and a BIG miss.
Enemy: "oh hey I can choose between a living tin can and someone who wears a thin robe for protection... yeah let's beat up the one wearing knight armor he'll probably die first".
Posted Wonsavage on 20 November 2013 - 03:38 PM
Let me give you a quick rundown:
Part 1: Two unaffiliated factions ally together for seemingly no reason, because Scarlet.
Part 2: Suddenly, Pirates! Steampunk Pirates! Also because Scarlet.
Part 3: Scarlet appears, she can do anything.
Part 4: Two unaffiliated factions ally together for seemingly no reason, because Scarlet.
Posted Desild on 02 November 2013 - 02:08 PM
Posted Phenn on 05 November 2013 - 09:00 PM
It's frustrating when you don't see good strong arguments being accepted, but don't give up.
Yeah--I'm really not all that confrontational, I just get worked up over injustices. I'll keep at it. It's one of those things that is broken at a fundamental level, so I marvel at how easily it can be ignored.
Thanks for the input/encouragement.