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#2344722 Is GW2 dead now or is it just the forums?

Posted Captain Bulldozer on 19 December 2014 - 12:51 AM

I think some of you have missed the mark... by quite a bit in fact.  Why did GW never attain the popularity of WoW?  There are a few basic points that pretty much sum it up:

1)  No one had ever heard of Arena.net when GW1 was released.  On the other hand, Blizzard was a very well established company even back then due to it's massively popular RTS games.  GW1 was Arenanet's first game of note.

2)  Marketing.  GW1 had a very small marketing budget, most gamers who would have loved GW never heard about it, or heard about it AFTER they had already invested themselves in WoW.

3)  Playing GW1 was more challenging than playing WoW (or many other MMOs to this point).  Being successful often required synergy, teamwork and intelligence on a level that WoW has never really matched. While this is one of the things that made the game great, it's also something that turned off a lot of players.  PvP was difficult to enter because of this, and even PvE (at least for a while) could be massively challenging.

4)  Budget and business plan..  WoW's budget allowed for a real usable z-axis, something GW1 did not pay for. WoW was supported by a subscription model that isn't so different from a drug habit.  You don't have to sell the best quality coke to keep people coming back for more.  GW on the other hand required massive new content releases to make money, driving the quality of those releases up, but also making the game feel less accessible to new players (how many people said, "I can't get into it on an equal footing when there are already 2 expansions out there..." and din't buy it for that reason?)

I don't think GW2 is like Soviet Russian.  GW1 is basically Germany: tight, efficient, creative and well thought out.  Wow is like the USA: big, dumbed down and full of fat stupid people with more money than intelligence. I guess that makes GW2 something like the USA in the movie Idiocracy:  bigger, stupider and less likely to get better.

#2344476 Introducing the New Daily Achievement System

Posted raspberry jam on 15 December 2014 - 11:17 AM

On second thought, I feel that this update is a bit lacking. Yes, it's all good and well to get rewarded for logging in. But what about all those players that are making their very best effort at logging in, but can't click that icon? Maybe they have Parkinsons and when they try to move their mouse cursor to the Guild Wars 2 shortcut on the desktop their hand will be like shaking all over the place and they will fail to click the right thing and because of that accidentally start up some other interesting game such as The Binding of Isaac or Notepad instead. I know that happened to me several times and I don't even have Parkinsons. I feel that these people should at least get a silver reward for attempting to participate.

tl;dr: is reward for opening Notepad a good idea? y/n

#2341295 Is GW2 dead now or is it just the forums?

Posted Phineas Poe on 21 October 2014 - 07:55 PM

View PostVeji, on 21 October 2014 - 02:49 PM, said:

Maybe i'm wrong.  Maybe their demographic isn't just the "MMO player".  Maybe there is a more selective demographic that they are actually reaching, but i dunno.  WvW, from playing through the spring tourney, to playing through the fall tourney - i've noticed the population reduction and it sucks.

To put it simply, they've prioritized consumers over the community.

I don't mean consumers in the sense of people that buy things; we're all consumers in that regard. I mean the player-base that literally plays solely to burn through content and experience it, but isn't concerned with sticking around to talk about it or to repeat it. They're not simply casuals. These can be hardcore players too. People that play GW2 solely to obtain legendaries and ascended gear, to chase the carrot, fall under this group.

The group that plays the game to experience the lore, to come on websites like Guru and Reddit to discuss it, that share their experiences and enjoy reliving them---this is the community that sustains MMOs and keeps them around. These are the types of players that want things like guild halls, that don't really play solely to fill an objective but to build communities and participate with them.

The problem is that ArenaNet has been shirking us this entire time for the consumer base, probably because (1) it's more cost-effective creating cash shop items than creating community-driven content and (2) it's significantly more difficult overhauling GW2's theme park style content into something more sandbox-ish and player-controlled to support that community. This is in large part why we get bullshit like the Tournament of Legends and WvW seasons over real, genuine overhauls of this content.

It's the low-hanging fruit solution, but it's also the most immediately profitable. From a developer standpoint I understand why they do this, but from a gamer perspective it frustrates me to know that Guild Wars 2 could have been (and still can be) so much more.

#2340471 The game's content is poorly distributed, while its progression is simply...

Posted Baron von Scrufflebutt on 30 September 2014 - 10:13 AM

View PostMiragee, on 30 September 2014 - 08:24 AM, said:

Wouldn't you outlevel every area then?

1. As I said, each map gives you around 3 levels worth of XP of on-demand content. That's 3 levels worth of XP in a 10 or 15 level map. Doubling the XP would push that to some 6 or 7 levels. That's 7 levels in a map that spans 10 or 15 levels. Add the PS, add events, gathering, ... and players could easily get the needed XP.
Heck, this would could lead to folks not needing to explore the full map before moving on: which, as mentioned, is something I am a massive fan of because it leaves content on maps that players can return to.

2. Downscaling. If players gain too much XP, the game downscales said players making sure that the content is still challenging.

Doubling the XP gains for the whole game is as close to being the best solution for this mess that I can see: the game is made more approachable while A.Net isn't forced to waste hours upon hours on fixing things.

Just double the XP for everything.

#2340402 Gone For 6 Months..

Posted Konzacelt on 28 September 2014 - 04:24 AM

View PostMCBiohazard, on 26 September 2014 - 07:23 PM, said:

They should really just put their heads down, decide on a clear design path to go forward and stick to it even if it alienates a part of their playerbase. If it ends up that the game you or I want gets put on the wayside, then we can both just let it ride (just like Phineas) and play something else. No reason to stay if it's not what you want. But at least for the rest of the playerbase, it will only give them more consistent results. Check based time sink play might be what they've been wanting all along. A-Net should either keep going that way or turn the boat around. No halfsies.

Historically, ANet had already set a precedent with that back in GW1 with the turn towards a solo-PvE game at the expense of the smaller PvP crowd.  GW2 can, in many ways, be seen as a persistent, logical evolution of that design focus.  In that light, what you say makes pretty good sense.

The problem 'though is that that philosophy makes for a monocultural game landscape.  Every company will want to make a game that caters to the biggest crowd with the fattest wallets and everything else gets tossed to the wayside.  Why do you think GW2 content is widely regarded as "rated G"?  Or why the gameplay is regarded as so easy?  Or why the LS seems to be more and more tied to the gemstore?  ANet did have some innovation with GW2 like the mobile/CPC combat, the DE's, and the gorgeous graphics, and I applaud them for that.  But are those few good things supposed give them a free pass to popular mediocrity?

These days, the only "innovations" companies need in a game culture like that is simply designing a game with juuuuust enough original mechanics so that it doesn't seem like every other game out there.  Or at least feel like one long enough for the consumer to contribute x amount of dollars before he/she catches on and moves on.  Perhaps the reason so many(especially GW1 vets) seem upset on the forums isn't so much because they are selfish pricks who like to hate on ANet, but rather because a lot of fans thought ANet was above that trite and trivial mass-appeal approach to MMO's that most companies use.  I know I did.

#2340330 Gone For 6 Months..

Posted Kymeric on 26 September 2014 - 03:39 PM

View PostMiragee, on 26 September 2014 - 02:57 PM, said:

I also refuse to believe that the grumpy GW1 players are still the majority of complainers/people that are dissatisfied with the game/devs.

I'll stand up and be counted there.  I only played GW1 because I got excited about GW2.  It was a way to connect with GW2 before betas started.  I played through all three campaigns, EotN, War in Kryta and love story thingy (name escapes me at the moment).  I had fun, but I definitely wouldn't consider it one of the best games I've ever played.

I'm a grumpy GW2 player, but I don't want it to be more like GW1.  I want it to be more like the vision that ArenaNet cast before launch and more like what it was for a few months after.  I want it to be more like that immersive, explore-y, organic MMORPG they described and I experienced early on than the checklist focused, timer drive, repetitive, carrot-chasing MMO-as-usual it has been gradually evolving into since then.

#2340033 Gone For 6 Months..

Posted Senatic on 22 September 2014 - 01:09 PM

View PostKatsumi Kei, on 22 September 2014 - 12:57 PM, said:

Nothing controversial in them. Delivered, for the most part, desired features and improved the game big time. It could seem a little too much seeing all that at once, but the changes are positive.
Weird is not necessarily bad.

Nothing controversial? What rock have you been living under. No, it did not for the most part deliver desired features. It delivered required features for the continued growth of the community, but there was nothing desirable about most of them. The community never asked for these changes, anet made them to increase player retention. And as to whether or not they were an improvement is completely subjective, which should go to show that it was a bad way to go in the first place.

If you like insistent hand holding like you're a baby and your parent is afraid to let you play with your toys than sure I guess you could enjoy them. Personally I am a grown man perfectly capable of figuring out things for myself without daddy anet controlling every little detail of my play experience.

#2337480 Thoughts on the September Feature Pack?

Posted draxynnic on 29 August 2014 - 03:26 PM

Something gives me the feeling that ArenaNet doesn't consider making life harder of key farmers to be a bad thing. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if while they're changing up the PS rewards, they'll remove it altogether. (Possibly replacing it with a key further on in the PS - they want to give new players that free first taste, after all - but I'm pretty sure they'd prefer the only practical way to get them in decent numbers being through the gem store, not something that can be conveniently farmed.)

View PostShayne Hawke, on 29 August 2014 - 03:32 AM, said:

The timeline from the release of Prophecies to the release of EotN was only four months past two years.  The announcement of a sequel didn't even take two years.  One only needs compare GW2 to the growth of its predecessor in equal time to understand how it can feel so dead in relation.
For real embarrassment, compare the Living Story to Guild Wars Beyond in 2010-2012. The Live Team of about half a dozen with some assistance from art people working on their own time as a break from GW2 managed to do a pretty good job of making GW1 feel alive again. What they managed to do simply from reusing existing maps with new twists and storylines that were actually fairly compelling was amazing. It may be exaggerating the point and/or looking back with rose-tinted glasses to claim that Beyond achieved nearly as much as the Living Story has... but hey, it's close enough that the comparison can be made with a straight face, and when you're comparing a half-dozen people in a pod to a company of a couple of hundred, that's indictment enough.

On the guilds thing: Obviously, I can't speak for everyone. I do know, however, that Phineas' EG was and I think still is one of the bigger and more recognisable builds on Sanctum of Rall, and now on the megaservers that SoR players are likely to be fed into: if they're getting disillusioned and drifting into other games (or migrating en masse into Archeage: either way) this is a symptom of a problem. More personally, I have friends in Relics of Orr and occasionally join them to do various things - their leaders stopped scheduling guild missions because they found there were no longer enough members turning up to be worth it, and the average people online (representing or not) at any given time has dropped significantly since I joined. And I keep seeing and hearing similar problems in other guilds. I'm sure there are some guilds full of like-minded people that are all able to resist the growing ennui rather than dropping off one by one... but I'm pretty sure they're not representative of the majority.

Thing is, all this focus on the new-player experience really does feel like a bandaid approach to try to get more players and box sales. However, I'm not sure even that's going to work for them. People aren't likely to jump into a two-year old game, that hasn't had any serious expansions in that two years, without recommendations from current players... and I know I'd have reservations about recommending GW2 to anyone right now, however much I'd like to see the company succeed.

To stall the game's slow decline, ArenaNet really need to do something spectacular... but that's not something they seem to be willing to do. To draw an ironic analogy, ArenaNet now feels a lot like Adelbern after the Searing - too afraid of risking losing what he has left to take any action that might actually improve his position, and so by default his position steadily deteriorates until he's forced to pull the plug.

#2337183 GW2 has a content, not a feature problem.

Posted Baron von Scrufflebutt on 27 August 2014 - 08:47 AM

View PostI post stuff, on 27 August 2014 - 01:02 AM, said:

Being critical of the game doesn't always mean solely looking for more things to whine about.

If we are dealing with constructive criticism, does it matter if folks point out issues instead of pointing out positive elements? Why would folks need to spice up their posts with off-topic positive comments just for the sake of posting positive elements?

View PostMCBiohazard, on 27 August 2014 - 03:38 AM, said:

I'm pretty sure I know the difference between constructive and nonconstructive criticism. The latter is what I am tired of and there is a lot of it mixed in with the actual discussion of real issues with the game. Check every long thread in this subforum (there's probably at least one or two such posts in this one) and you will see random jerks chime in with statements that have no substance besides "this game sucks". No thought or critical weight behind the statements, just undisguised and often incoherent contempt for the subject. Doesn't that bum anybody else out at all? I mean, if you want your own criticism to be taken seriously, do you really want dudes like that bungling the delivery for you?

If the posts bring absolutely nothing constructive to the discussion, report them and get them removed. Or respond to them and showcase how shallow they are.
But it's utter bullshit to be running around and going "somebody posted something somewhere and now the whole thread/forum sucks". There's absolutely nothing productive about such comments.

With that in mind, there's probably nothing on-topic about this discussion either. :)

#2337113 GW2 has a content, not a feature problem.

Posted Baron von Scrufflebutt on 26 August 2014 - 07:12 PM

View PostMCBiohazard, on 26 August 2014 - 05:31 PM, said:

Don't take my statement as a personal affront but there are quite a number of users here that pop up out of the woodwork every time there is fresh news and have not contributed one positive or even neutral remark to any discussion they've been in to my knowledge. I'm not intending to start a witch hunt though so I'm not going to list them. There's always signal to noise issues in any forum but guru seems to be more susceptible just because the userbase is smaller than official forums and they reverberate in the echo chamber a lot louder.

So a negative remark (or a bunch of them, even) means that they "hate" the game? I think there's a difference between "hating" the game and being critical of it. Because being critical of the game means that a player can still very much like, or at least want to like, the game, whereas "hating" the game doesn't allow for that option.

#2333762 Quality in GW2?

Posted Feathermoore on 29 July 2014 - 06:02 PM

Even a steady fan base is difficult to use as a sign of quality. Twilight has a fan base and it would be considered low in the quality department. And while quality is subjective to a degree, it isn't really true to say there is no objective way to view it. I mean, we do it all the time with works of art, which video games fall into. Literature, paintings, movies, and music are evaluated in relatively non-subjective ways with regard to quality. A product is made well or it isn't, that isn't a subjective argument. Whether an individual likes or dislikes something is really not determined by quality; though it can be used as an indicator as to the number of people that will like it.

As for McDonalds, you have to take it in context. No, the grade of food you get is not the same level as at a steakhouse, but the decision isn't made from quality. You get quality, speed, and price as options and have to choose two. McDonalds sacrifices quality to be good at the other two categories.

MMOs are a different beast with the vast amount of things they have going. WvW is different from PvE, even different parts of PvE are different. We have a story and gameplay as two separate design entities and therefor get to choose 2 of the 3 options multiple times. GW2 picks the fast food approach, sacrifices quality in order to offer a product at low cost that comes to you quickly (and that isn't a negative thing, just the product goal). Now, they do a good job at that, but the game is what it is. Without Anet spending more money (which necessitates higher income) or more time (delaying releases) it really isn't possible to increase the quality of the releases beyond the natural benefit of learning from past mistakes. Releases will get better over time as each release benefits from the time spent on past ones, artificially increasing the time spent on the product. This is a byproduct of the nature of MMOs since they are a constant, long term product.

The quality of the living story releases is separate from the base game though as they are really two different products.

#2333411 ArenaNet to "address [...] the dominance of Berserker/DPS"

Posted Conkers on 25 July 2014 - 09:33 PM

View PostNikephoros, on 25 July 2014 - 06:00 PM, said:

Healers are often the hardest role in games, but the midliner buffer/debuffer is ALWAYS the easiest role.

Not really, pure buffers are usually easy to play, but to take the two examples I gave  Loremaster in LOTRO and chlorodom (PvP) in Rift were both high skill cap, chlorodom being the highest skillcap build in the game, they were both classed as "support" but they were hybrid, so to take loremaster as an example there were raids where you would have to do the following:

- keep 1 or 2 "elites" perma dazed
- Use appropriate CC's on spawning mobs (slows, roots, stuns, etc)
- keep up stun immunity on the tank (and sometimes tank healer)
- keep up debuffs on the boss, mobs that spawn.
- Keep up some buffs (not the main buffing class, more of a debuffer)
- remove wounds & diseases from your team mates (basically cleanse)
- contribute steady DPS, whilst also at times contributing heavy AOE burst
- off heal
- Peel (CC) if someone got aggro they shouldn't have (unlike certain other games, LOTRO did not have mods telling everyone where they were on the aggro table, and at least early on healers had some skills that could very easily grab aggro)
- Drain power from the boss/mobs and then give power to key classes that had "issues" with power conservation such as guards (tank), minstrel (healer) & captain (support)
- Act as a last resort rez option if healers/captain were on cooldown.
- all whilst managing a pet

The amount of awareness both of the mobs & your team, the level of multitasking and the amount of decision making was on a totally different level to the simplicity that is PvE in GW2, not a PvP level, but for PvE it was far above average.

View PostNikephoros, on 25 July 2014 - 06:00 PM, said:

Secondly, "pve is face roll easy" I hear a lot.  Pretty weird then that you didn't win the dungeon tournament?  Why aren't you competing in the faceroll easy fractal tournament?  Why isn't your guild rated on the gwscr board?

Because the PvE is so easy and so bad (as in poorly designed - condies useless, range useless, stack in safespot in melee which would be considered an exploit in other MMOs, etc), that I stopped bothering with PvE a long time ago. Most guilds that I know well, who came to this game from LOTRO, WoW, Rift, etc, had the majority of their members leave within 9 months, they were raid guilds in those games and it became very apparent that GW2 was not going to offer them the challenging PvE they wanted, 2 years in, it still doesn't, great for casuals, but comparing Arah or something to end game raids in other MMOs is a joke.

View PostNikephoros, on 25 July 2014 - 06:00 PM, said:

Fact: the game is only easy because my guild taught everyone in the game how to play...

Fact: the PvE is easy, for example this is a game where you can solo "end game" dungeons, and the only thing stopping you from soloing others are mechanics that require more than one person, the PvE content is not challenging in the slightest, it is a joke compared to PvE in most other MMOs,

As for your guild, I have never heard of you and you know why, because GW2 PvE is a joke, where most people who wanted a challenge left long ago, because this game simply does not offer that, which leaves try-hards desperately trying to invent some challenge for instances that you can solo, it is tragic...

View PostNikephoros, on 25 July 2014 - 06:00 PM, said:

You are confusing the content being old with content being easy.

Nonsense, hardest raid in RIft was Hammerknell pre-nerf, hardest raids in LOTRO were back when the level cap  was 65/60, etc, GW2 PvE is easy, because the game is designed around tPvP and is basically broken in PvE, there are very large tolerances for success in most of it (e.g the DPS races are a joke compared to raids in other games), the whole rally/rez mechanic is very, very forgiving, the classes are simplistic, the teamwork shallow and limited, there is minimal responsibility and everyone is basically playing a DPS role with a little bit of support stuck on the side, which is a very easy role to play.

#2333381 ArenaNet to "address [...] the dominance of Berserker/DPS"

Posted Conkers on 25 July 2014 - 03:55 PM

View PostNikephoros, on 25 July 2014 - 02:31 PM, said:

That's fine, plenty of games have this and this has been the path to success for the more casual (from a time/effort perspective) player since MMOs began.

Total nonsense, in most MMOs support/CC/heals require more skill, more awareness, more multitasking and more knowledge of the encounter than any DPS (whether that be melee or ranged), which with the odd exception like burglar in LOTRO these classes are normally ranged, only tanks really require knowledge/awareness, and even then still not the skill, awareness or multitasking of many healers/cc/support, e.g in LOTRO loremaster required a lot more than a champion, even in PvP much the same is true, highest skill cap in Rift was chlorodom, where as warrior was a case of rolling your face across your keyboard. (see GW2 does have similarities to more traditional MMOs ;))

The problem in this game is the PvE is faceroll easy, the teamwork shallow, the classes simplistic, everyone is playing effectively the easiest role (DPS) with a side serving of support, etc so there is nothing melee or ranged that requires the decsion making, awareness, multitasking, etc that certain classes/builds require in more traditional MMOs.

The other issue is the game was designed around their tPvP "esport" dream, so mechanics are basically broken in PvE, e.g - condies, boon stacking (standing in safe spot all melee), which makes range largely useless and melee faceroll easy (in that the encounter is over much quicker and you have perma boons, aegis etc on you), in other MMOs where PvE is less of a joke it would be considered an exploit.

#2332268 Entanglement Update Notes

Posted typographie on 16 July 2014 - 03:03 AM

View PostMiragee, on 15 July 2014 - 07:38 PM, said:

Should have stayed with pure instances then.

And I'm sure no one would have complained about that. :mellow:

#2331857 GW2 has a content, not a feature problem.

Posted Alleji on 13 July 2014 - 05:24 PM

GW2 will always have a content issue because of the way it is designed.

Game has no replayability, so whatever content they put out is going to be played through quickly and left behind and it's impossible to produce content faster than players will go through it if there's no replayability. The worst part is that the content they already produced in the past isn't even there anymore for new players or players who took a break.

I don't think it's even possible to create content with high replayability value ("endless grind" doesn't qualify) in GW2 without overhauling the core of the game. It just wasn't designed that way and changing it now seems way too late. It needed to happen in 2012.