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raspberry jam

Member Since 19 Jan 2010
Offline Last Active Yesterday, 03:10 PM

#2344581 Introducing the New Daily Achievement System

Posted El Duderino on 16 December 2014 - 09:47 PM

View PostBaron von Scrufflebutt, on 16 December 2014 - 07:56 PM, said:

GW2's requirements such as  "salvage items", "apply conditions", "dodge", "craft items", "kill non hostile creatures",

Colin Johanson: "You'll get quest text that tells you 'I'm being attacked by these horrible things,' and it's not actually happening. In the game world, these horrible centaurs are standing around in a field, and you get a quest step that says 'Go kill ten centaurs.' We don't think that's OK. You see what's happening. You see centaurs running to the trading post, knocking the walls down, burning and killing the merchants."


#2344578 Introducing the New Daily Achievement System

Posted Baron von Scrufflebutt on 16 December 2014 - 07:56 PM

View PostCaptain Bulldozer, on 16 December 2014 - 06:01 PM, said:

Well said.

For comparison purposes here, I'll walk in and add the following observation:

The original Guild Wars game did not add anything in the form of daily rewards until the daily Zaishen quests; something which happened more than 4 years AFTER GW1 launched, and more than 2 years after the last major purchasable content release.  Also, from my recollection, a significant portion of GW1's playerbase started playing the game (and contiuned to do so) somewhere around the 2 year in mark. Though I doubt it's anything new to say, how can anyone not acknowledge the difference in quality between those two games given these two striking difference?

Personally, I still consider ZQuests to be a pretty decent model of how to incorporate dailies. I always found them to be a way that promotes doing content, whereas GW2's dailies are about doing non-content, or filler. GW2's requirements such as  "salvage items", "apply conditions", "dodge", "craft items", "kill non hostile creatures", ...are nowhere near as intriguing as  "Do Vizunah". Even ZBounties were more intriguing because of the instanced nature of GW1: the boss was designed with a specific party(size) in mind, so the fight could push the player much more. In GW2, the fight in open-world basically need to be able to be played by 1 person or 30. It's simply impossible to design these encounters as tightly and precisely as you can an encounter where you know exactly how many people are going to go against it.

And it was that tight design that kept the content intriguing and allowed the dailies to be an extra incentive to do it, rather than the sole reason for doing it. In GW2, on the other hand, the reward is the sole reason to do something, because without it, you might as well not be doing it.


#2344566 Introducing the New Daily Achievement System

Posted Captain Bulldozer on 16 December 2014 - 06:01 PM

View PostEl Duderino, on 16 December 2014 - 05:45 PM, said:

Giving people incentives just to LOG IN to a game is a completely desperate attempt at, well, getting people to log into a game. If the game was good enough, you wouldn't have to dangle a carrot in front of the customer simply to get them to engage with it, regardless of actually needing to play the game - which is the whole point of a game's existence.


Well said.

For comparison purposes here, I'll walk in and add the following observation:

The original Guild Wars game did not add anything in the form of daily rewards until the daily Zaishen quests; something which happened more than 4 years AFTER GW1 launched, and more than 2 years after the last major purchasable content release.  Also, from my recollection, a significant portion of GW1's playerbase started playing the game (and contiuned to do so) somewhere around the 2 year in mark. Though I doubt it's anything new to say, how can anyone not acknowledge the difference in quality between those two games given these two striking difference?


#2344563 Introducing the New Daily Achievement System

Posted El Duderino on 16 December 2014 - 05:45 PM

View PostSatenia, on 16 December 2014 - 03:02 PM, said:

What evidence do you have of the contrary? Such speculation is pointless. If you want to believe an official statement, they said that the NPE was done based on euro/us feedback and not just cause of the china launch. Why put so much effort into that if not to accommodate new players?

Personally I think that for us veteran players it's easy to forget that you can put a lot of hours (and money) into the game just casually playing through the campaign and the zones. A MMO today can attract a far broader crowd then a few years ago.

The fact that they have yet to have announced hitting 5M Western sales. Seems like it would be an important milestone that would be announced. The fact that revenue is stagnant. I mean, there certainly is more pointing to the fact that they aren't attracting new players rather than the opposite. But, that was never my point. You were the one that was using ANet attracting new players as a point - therefore,  it is on you to prove that point or concede that you can't use it as support for your argument.

Quote

This would only be relevant if the upcoming daily achievement change was replacing additional content. However, it is not. The actual content is the recycled wintersday from last year (and the one before) and by all means you can complain about that as much as you want, but it is entirely unrelated to the daily achievement system change.

I still don't think you understand my point. Giving people incentives just to LOG IN to a game is a completely desperate attempt at, well, getting people to log into a game. If the game was good enough, you wouldn't have to dangle a carrot in front of the customer simply to get them to engage with it, regardless of actually needing to play the game - which is the whole point of a game's existence.

I feel this really may be going over your head, because you think I am complaining. I'm not. I don't really care. I just think it is an incredibly sad state of affairs for GW2 if they have to give people rewards simply to log in. In fact, you can add this back to my first point as another reason why it seems the game isn't gaining new players and is stagnant.


#2344497 Is GW2 dead now or is it just the forums?

Posted Cutthroat on 15 December 2014 - 05:06 PM

GW2 is like Finland - there are lots of introverts & melancholic people. I don't want to play a game which reminds me of real life. :P

But yeah.. I expect content for guilds; PvE & PvP instances for 10-20 people. Whatever. It's still a decent game for... chatting. Guild halls would be so great.. but I don't believe they can make GvG fun.

GW2 is dead to me till they release decent content for guilds.


#2344524 Introducing the New Daily Achievement System

Posted El Duderino on 16 December 2014 - 04:14 AM

Doesn't it just seem so desperate to have to give people rewards simply for deciding to turn on the game? I mean, do people have no other reason to turn on the game than to simply get a reward? And, then what? Is that all they care to actually do and then they log off? The whole thing seems derpy to me as if it is some last ditch effort to try and push people to play the game.

Seems to me if people like the game, they don't need to be incentivized just to log in.


#2344491 whats the point of level 80?

Posted Cutthroat on 15 December 2014 - 04:39 PM

View Postraspberry jam, on 15 December 2014 - 11:08 AM, said:

. . ."the fun went bye bye (...) VEry odd feeling and cheap feeling".
Haha! That's like the best review of GW2. But yeah, it's just another game funded by people who don't have better things to do, apparently. Some people have a lot of extra money, and that's ok, but I kinda wish they'd stop supporting the game. I don't know if we'd get an expansion sooner then. But I also have very high expectations for the expansion, so keep funding the making of it . :cool: I'm not spending any more money on the game. I've got CE + normal account, and definitely spent more than their cost on gems. Some spent thousands, so I shut up & just wait for the expansion.


#2344398 Introducing the New Daily Achievement System

Posted Vapor on 14 December 2014 - 02:54 AM

ANet: Please play our game, please please please play our game!


#2344446 I hate jumping puzzles.

Posted Occultus on 14 December 2014 - 06:15 PM

Same here, I ♥♥♥♥ing detest them.  This game engine wasn't built with jumping puzzles in mind, just look at the retarded camera system that just decides, for no discernible reason, to zoom right in on random aspects of the landscape making some parts of jumping puzzles nigh on impossible.  It's even worse when your character happens to by a Norn warrior the size of the Hulk and wearing and heavy armour.


#2344308 Introducing the New Daily Achievement System

Posted NerfHerder on 11 December 2014 - 09:39 PM

By itself, this is a welcome change. I dont see any downside from here. I like the signing in for a reward. Because sometimes I sign in, decide I dont really want to do the same stuff over and over, then log out. And I like the idea of being rewarded for playing the I want. Win for me.

Yes, I want to see continents open up. I want that wonderful experience of exploring GW2, when it first released, all over again. I want more weapon choices, skill expansion, guild halls, etc. But, that's another discussion.


#2344314 I hate jumping puzzles.

Posted Haggus on 12 December 2014 - 12:35 AM

I hate the jump puzzles.  For some of them, God help you if you have a millisecond of lag.


#2344302 Is GW2 dead now or is it just the forums?

Posted El Duderino on 11 December 2014 - 07:21 PM

View Postraspberry jam, on 11 December 2014 - 06:41 PM, said:

That is an interesting article! I mean, it's interesting to look back like that. It feels like 2004 wasn't so long ago, but then you read that and... whoa.

I feel that I wasn't entirely clear. I didn't mean obsolete as in that it didn't innovate - because I think that while WoW does innovate, it does so slowly and poorly, yet manages to stay alive. I meant obsolete as in that people stop playing it because there is some newer, better thing to play - that's the entire problem with MMOs, there is not really any "better" MMO than WoW (at least fantasy-setting MMOs).

With that in mind, I certainly didn't mean that FPS games had become obsolete, or that Doom didn't lead anywhere - I just meant that compared to, say, CoD AW, almost no one is playing Doom anymore. It does have a small and quite dedicated following, but the majority of gamers look at it as the average driver would look at a Ford Model T. Venerable, and good when it was new.
And yeah, the Civilization series is of course alive and well. But I didn't mean Civilization the series, I meant Civilization the game - you know, the first one, which had squares instead of hexagons and a map that looks like pixel mush.

Now you might say "well of course no one plays the original Civ because why would they, it's old and there are better-looking games with more or less the same mechanics made since then"... Well yeah... The same is true for WoW.

(Important note: I'm not saying that WoW is a good game. Merely that it seems to attract a whole lot of people. But so did Hitler.)

I think we pretty much agree. :)


#2344202 Introducing the New Daily Achievement System

Posted El Duderino on 10 December 2014 - 07:46 PM

View PostBaron von Scrufflebutt, on 10 December 2014 - 07:05 PM, said:

That's part of the problem: previously new content was the incentive to log in, now we are looking at a month without content and "Log in to get the reward! JUST LOG IN!" is the replacement for it.
Give us new content, give us something we'll enjoy logging in for. Instead, we get a reward for logging in!?

Not just that, but I also have to wonder what kind of a player this will appeal to? If they are trying to appeal to the people that require a reward for simply logging in, what kind of future content can we expect? Will these players even want content that requires them to overcome challenges to gain the reward?

I think this is the underlying problem with the MMO genre, which is a byproduct of the themepark style MMO. Fun has largely stopped being the main influencer in MMOs and has been replaced by rewards. This is seen over and over again with the discussions we have about MMOs, their development and how developers use rewards to drive log ins and interactions.

I suppose that it really boils down to just another dopamine injections from the brain. Whether it is rewards, winning a PvP battle, completing a story: it is all just dopamine hits to the brain that make people coming back for more like Pavlov's dogs. Which makes me wonder if there is something that separates these things as being more important or better than the other in any objective way. Perhaps, it is the way in which you achieve the dopamine bump that should matter. So, for simple daily rewards, you basically are forced to log in and grind a bit, with a PvP match - you actually have to deftly find a way to win said match. If that is the case - I go back to my original statement then - sounds like a bore.

Sorry for the stream-of-consciousness rant...


#2344199 Introducing the New Daily Achievement System

Posted Baron von Scrufflebutt on 10 December 2014 - 07:05 PM

View Postdavadude, on 10 December 2014 - 06:36 PM, said:

I feel its also something for us to check out, considering we'll be stuck with Wintersday for 3+ weeks until the next update.

That's part of the problem: previously new content was the incentive to log in, now we are looking at a month without content and "Log in to get the reward! JUST LOG IN!" is the replacement for it.
Give us new content, give us something we'll enjoy logging in for. Instead, we get a reward for logging in!?

Not just that, but I also have to wonder what kind of a player this will appeal to? If they are trying to appeal to the people that require a reward for simply logging in, what kind of future content can we expect? Will these players even want content that requires them to overcome challenges to gain the reward?


#2344196 Introducing the New Daily Achievement System

Posted El Duderino on 10 December 2014 - 06:53 PM

View PostSoki, on 10 December 2014 - 06:41 PM, said:

Daily Chores redux.
Is this what ANet has? Is the Dev team really that small now?
What a sad sequal to GW.

I just don't understand the excitement of what amounts to chores in a game. Games are supposed to be fun. Chores... aren't... fun...