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Posted ben911993 on 14 February 2014 - 10:45 PM
Posted Loperdos on 08 September 2013 - 05:52 AM
Once again, let me say that I realize that condition damage or hybrid builds do not do as much DPS as a straight up direct damage build. If that's what you are looking for, check out Brazil's thread here. He does a good job outlining what the current DPS meta is for the thief. That being said, I will launch right into it.
The purpose of this build again is not a straight up DPS build, but rather a build that I wanted to see if I could construct around Torment. Since a thief's only two ways to apply Torment is via Shadowstrike and Skale Venom, a P/D build was an obvious choice. As opposed to my conD D/D build this build benefits from some direct damage because Shadowstrike actually has a decent dmg coefficient on it compared to Death Blossom. So we take a little bit of direct damage and the hybrid build works. Or at least seems to.
THE BUILD (CLICK HERE)
I give a pretty decent description within the guide on Intothemists. The basis of this build is to run a full 30/10/-/-/30 build. Now, before you go grabbing the torches and pitchforks to burn me at the stake for not taking 30 in CS on a sorta direct damage build, hear me out.
Giver's P/D - Sig of Agony on the Pistol for the increased bleed up-time/Sig of Earth to proc extra bleeds off of precision, since its our dominant stat on most of our equips.
Zerker's S/(Giver's D from above) - Sig of Acc on the Sword for an increased chance to crit, as well as helping increase the amount of bleeds you can proc off of your Sig of Earth.
The main reason for Giver's here is for the increased condition duration. I realize that it makes it so if you run with consumables, you end up being over the 100% duration for Torment, but it will put you up at 90% for your other conditions, and you generally drop vuln as well as poison so the condition duration will help you out loads.
The alternate Sword is what is used for a bit of AoE, plus it gives the nice little boon steal on the dual skill. Comes in quite handy in some situations.
SB is another possible alternate, and never leaves my inventory, especially for tagging on large world events, as Clusterbomb is awesome for that, and the auto attack on it is none too shabby either.
Our main two trait-lines are Deadly Arts and Trickery and we take 30 points in each. The final 10 points are arbitrary and can go in basically any of the other lines. CS will increase damage via increased crit, crit dmg and picking up the 10% dmg (CS-V) on pistols. SA will increase survivability, and possibly init depending on what trait is taken. Shadow's Embrace (SA-IV) is a good one if you find yourself short on condition clears. Infusion of Shadow (SA-V) is another good one if you find yourself low on init. Acro is where you will want to put them if you need a bit more mobility since you get swiftness on dodge. Which trait you pick depends, I would suggest taking Vigor on Heal (Acr-III) as you are using Withdraw quite often so you will have some vigor to increase your survivability. If that's not something you are interested in or don't have trouble with it, go ahead and trait Power of Inertia (Acr-II) or Fleet Shadow (SA-VI), though you won't be in stealth ALL that often. Be warned that you don't have as many evades without Feline Grace, so Power of Inertia may not be the best choice.
In Deadly Art we take 30 points for the power, condition duration, as well as the venom traits that we pick up to help our venoms be worthwhile.
- We take Venomous Strength (DA-IV) for a bit extra power and condition dmg via some might stacks, mainly because this is the best one for us in this major trait spot. Mug (DA-III) is a decent alternative if again, survivability is an issue because it does drop a small heal, and with Steal on such a short CD, it is sort of worth it.
- Next we take Quick Venoms (DA-VIII) for the reduced CD on venoms. This makes venoms a bit more viable because otherwise they are on an extremely long CD, which isn't beneficial to what we are trying to do. There's not a whole lot of possible variants here because Quick Venoms is quite important to the build. The only other one that is probably worth considering is Combined Training (DA-X) because we do use our dual skill, Shadowstrike, quite often.
- Finally, we take Residual Venom (DA-XII) so our venoms are a bit more potent. Its quite amusing when you use Basilisk Venom and you proc a ricochet so you end up turning two of your enemies to stone.
- First off we take Thrill of the Crime (T-V). Since we are going to be using steal as often as possible, this trait just makes sense. You could take Uncatchable (T-III) or Flanking Strikes (T-IV) instead, but I prefer TotC just because of how often I'm using Steal, and the Fury is quite helpful.
- Second major trait we take Ricochet (T-X). This is mandatory. We spend most of our time on P/D and this trait got some love back in June so that it now procs 50% of the time instead of 25% of the time and it really benefits our build. It makes it so you can spread venoms against multiple targets, so it matches up with Residual Venoms quite well, so you plop more venoms on enemies. If Ricochet is really not something you want, you could always take Bountiful Theft (T-VII) to increase your up-time on Vigor. This is especially helpful if you took the 10 points in Acro and grabbed Vigorous Recovery (Acr-III).
- Finally, our grandmaster trait is Sleight of Hand (T-XII). This is another trait that got some love back in June, so now it not only dazes your enemy when you steal, but it also reduced Steal's CD. This makes it quite beneficial to us. There isn't a whole lot I would switch this trait out for, if anything, perhaps Hastened Recovery (T-XI) for some added init regen. I haven't actually sat down to figure out which one actually ends up being better for init regen, the reduced Steal CD or the 4 init on heal. Hopefully I'll have some time to do as such soon~ish.
Heal Slot: The only one that I probably wouldn't consider is Signet of Malice for the simple reason that with the equipment selection, the build is quite squishy, so the passive heals don't really proc enough to keep you alive. For this reason I generally use Withdraw because the extra evade has come in particularly handy on multiple occasions. Couple that with the fact that you can Shadowstrike>about face>Withdraw and be in perfect placement to drop 2 more stacks of AoE Torment on whatever you just Shadowstruck, and this makes Withdraw the heal of choice. Hide in Shadows could work, as its an additional stealth, which helps stack up your venom applications after you activate them, but overall, Withdraw does seem to be the better choice.
Utilities: I would suggest taking Infiltrator's Signet as one of your utility slots because it gives us another Shadowstep so we can setup another Shadowstrike without having to take the time to run back towards the mob. Beyond that, Skale Venom is quite important in order to help us drop Torment on the enemies' faces. The last slot is largely personal preference as opposed to anything else.
Elite: The obvious choice is Basilisk Venom since we are traited so heavily for venoms as it is. You could also run either Dagger Storm or Thieves Guild and do relatively well, but the BV on a 36s CD is pretty awesome and comes in handy time and time again.
Armor and trinket choice is pretty straight forward for a hybrid build. Full Rampagers (Prec*, conD, Power) is what we are going to run with. Combine this with a full compliment of Superior Runes of Tormenting, and our condition dmg isn't horribly terrible, and with the high~ish crit chance, our direct damage isn't horrible either. Its not good, but its not terrible.
Food: Koi Cakes or Rare Veggie Pizza are your two first choices. The extra condition duration boosts our Torment duration up by quite a bit, and the longer duration Torment helps us stack more on top of whatever we are fighting. The additional condition damage is quite helpful as well.
Tuning Crystals: These aren't as necessary because we have very low toughness and vitality, so it won't up our condition damage by much. Most of the time I just run with a dungeon or content specific potion and call it good.
Playstyle Tips and Tricks
Intothemists has the rotation that I generally use. You'll probably run low on init on the longer fights, so at that point just make due with what you can. Don't hesitate to use auto attack because it does stack bleeds and with the decent crit chance plus the Sig of Earth, you can keep a stack between 7-10 without using the Stealth Shot.
Also, here's a quick and short video showing a bit of the playstyle:
And that's that. I've used it in Fractals and Dungeons a bit here and there, but no extensive testing. From the play that I have had in both those types of content, I've been pretty pleased with this build. Its a lot of movement, and a lot of hopping in and out of combat, and a tad spastic when it comes down to it, but its a lot of fun. You may run into some issues if you run with a group that likes to pin down whatever mob you are fighting because then you can't take full advantage of the bonus dmg/tick from Torment, but its still an additional DIFFERENT dmg condition that I figure any little bit helps out.
Feel free to add me in-game, Loperdos.7924, if you have any questions or comments or anything like that. I've enjoyed the build so far, and it seems to be relatively good at stacking some Torment. It probably has some interesting WvW ramifications, though the traits would probably need to be switched around a bit. I'm going to try to put up some more videos of the playstyle of this build as well as my other conD build, so keep an eye out on my YouTube channel.
Thanks for reading, and I hope you enjoy the build!
Posted Geralt Romalion on 19 February 2013 - 11:45 AM
For one, I do not think you should compare the combat of GW1 and Gw2.
This because they are two entirely different games with different mechanics,
Both have their strengths and weaknesses.
Guild Wars 1 allowed for a deep amount of strategy, since you could pick every skill on your bar, and those of your heroes.
This allowed for a massive amount of theorycrafting, especially with over 1000 skills in the game.
Ignoring solo builds, the GW1 combat was not really about how YOU performed, but how YOUR TEAM performed.
The combat itself however was pretty basic, and sometimes boring.
For me this was countered by the hexes and enchantment system, allowing for various effects adding massive strategic depth.
The last few years of GW it steered away from its purpose, since several buffs allowed you to pull over 30 mobs and beat the crap out of them without a single death.
Before that it was great, since not only did you need to plan encounters, you also had to micro your skills, hero skills/party skills, positioning, but also what the enemy was doing.
Guild Wars 2 reduced the amount of skills and locked 5 of them on your bar, in order to optimise efficieny buildwise.
While I agree that GW1 became a bit like magic: the gathering with a gazillion skills, making it easy to create bad builds, it also really simplified the game.
We do no longer have enchantments or hexes with their respective effects, everything is reduced to boons and conditions.
The combat is more active and flashy, and the dodge mechanic is a great addition, but I do miss GW1's strategic planning of battle's, and the rewarding feel if you built your team in such a way you got through that hard encounter.
If anything, I would love a mix of the two.
The dodge and actionbased power of Gw2, combined with the strategic depth and free usage of every skill slot on your bar from GW1.
Posted Blizt on 27 October 2012 - 04:39 AM
Imo they don't have to make completely new skills, just make auto-attack faster, less casting time on Box of Nails, instant casting for Magnet as well as increased range (something like 900~1200).
Posted Rrafaz on 29 September 2012 - 12:28 AM
So let's look at what the problem with the Thief is: The initiative system. With it's fast recharge rate and no cooldowns, it's no wonder Thieves spam their best attack. Why use anything else? Why play smart, and have a chance of losing, when you can press one button and instagib someone from 100-0? This is the main problem that really needs addressing.
So here's my idea. A new class mechanic, called "Predictability". When using a single skill that costs initiative back to back, you take 15% reduced damage for each subsequent attack, stacking up to 60% at max. This won't affect autoattacks due to proccing off of one skill used over and over that costs initiative, and using an autoattack drops all stacks of Predictability.
Before you cry nerf, think about it. This promotes good Thief play, and punishes the bad button mashing that ends up being so shallow and generally not fun for anyone. Thief burst still exists, because you can go into stealth with Cloak and Dagger, Backstab, then Heartseeker for a good wallop of damage. It just requires more smarts and setting up now, instead of Haste-> Heartseeker until death.
Not only does this fix HS spammers, but it fixes everything bad about Thief builds, while still keeping them viable. Pistol Whip, when used multiple times inside Haste, is bad. But a good Thief will use skills in between, like Head Shot, Infiltrator's Strike, etc. to lock you down, and not just relying on that one moment where they have Haste up and can kill you in a second.
Pistol/Pistol and Shortbow Thieves get a trait somewhere, made for them: "Cloak of Shadow". This makes Predictability do less damage reduction, or no reduction, as long as they stay a certain distance from their enemies. Projectiles are unreliable burst and Unload/Cluster Bomb is easy to avoid and counter, so not as much punishment for repeated skills is needed. Also, most Thieves don't spam Unload in melee range anyway, as they're unable to react as well.
Tell me what you think. I thought pretty hard about this!
Posted Draecor on 07 August 2012 - 05:31 PM
First, the easy answer is Guild Wars 1 didn't allow this in GvG, Team Arena, Codex Arena, Random Arena, Hall of Heroes, and etc. The build wars in GW1 started before the game started. It was more organic feeling then, and you would realize what the other teams build was and had to PLAY accordingly, not switch skills accordingly.
Second, let's be honest some classes are able to counter a lot more classes just based on utility skills. A condition Necro is screwed if the 5v5 team he is playing switches to condition removal + stability mid game. Unlike the Axe Necro, who can still burst dps. The Condition Necro was hard countered and literally can't do anything but be support. Even if he switches his elite or utility skills he still can't catch up to what he had before. This is just completely not competitive, sure people will say it takes skill to learn when to switch skills. But how much does it take really? First see first switch bases is not "skilled". Plenty of more examples of course.
Third, it just feels gimmicky. I don't see how it feels competitive. Look at other eSports like LoL, or Starcraft. LoL has it's summoner spells which are a lot like utility skills. You can't change summoner spells mid game because you would be able to counter every situation possible. Reward people for superior builds and skills, not punish them by allowing them to be hard countered mid game. Starcraft gives you a lot more flexibility but I could go as far to say that imagine having a free Dark Archon to mind control different races allowing you more units and more counters. Doesn't exactly make sense.
Fourth, you know how most of the competitiveness of LoL starts before the game even starts? They have their own build wars and it is very entertaining to watch. People constantly counter pick each other, and I am not going to lie it would be pretty cool if Guild Wars could pick professions like that but that is not really an idea just a thought. Anyway, people counter pick all the time in professional play (Soraka > Karthus easiest example). Gives the crowd time to understand what they are going up against. Could you imagine after explaining everyones builds in a shoutcasted money tournament the announcers have to say mid game "well EX Force changed his abilities to blah blah blah". It doesn't sound exciting and takes away from the game. I much rather have the observer mode giving them all the information they need and not having them keep track of our skills all game. Imagine no observer mode now, how will the shoutcasters keep up even after announcing everyone's skills/builds?
Fifth (bare with me here I know TL;DR), what is the point of even having build wars pre-game because you can make up for a bad pick mid game? That is just a game breaker for me, if you plan a better team build and strategy you should be rewarded for that. Some teams just plan better than others because they put more work into it, reward them for doing that.
TL;DR I don't think the mid-skill changing current meta is very competitive and will be helpful for GW2 reaching eSports status. Thanks.
Posted Hep on 09 July 2012 - 11:42 AM