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#2166460 Is GW2's combat system a step backwards from GW1?

Posted Minion on 19 February 2013 - 08:56 AM

View Postmatsif, on 19 February 2013 - 03:36 AM, said:

GW2's is more "active" in the sense that you have to dodge instead of tank.  Dodging by itself is more active than most PvE skill bars in GW1 that I played, as GW1 was pretty much spam 1-8 on cooldown/when you had the energy/adrenaline.

GW1 was more reactionary for some classes, especially as a monk or in PvP.  Knowing when to hit the interrupt or healing was very dependent on your reaction time.  GW1 had more skills, making the combat more diverse in that the player had more of a choice over what he wanted to do.  

highlighted for wtf and you're wrong, so so very wrong. Unless you made a typo and meant GW2 is pretty much just spam all skills on recharge... I don't care how many hours you played of Guild Wars, I put over 11k hours in, playing all formats (albeit GvG was shortlived for me and I only participated in a few HA matches), but you cannot say GW2 is not reactionary.

Dodging is reactionary. That should be obvious. Tanking is actually less reactionary, because you can set yourself up to take less damage so you can enter a situation with an upper hand, as opposed to the reactionary method where you must be alert and ready to dodge to avoid damage. This should be obvious. Infact, Guild Wars had reactive skills too, and they were terrible. Empathy, Backfire and Spiteful Spirit were cookie cutter. Anet probably recognised this love for reactive skills and decided to create a whole new game and philosophy based on the idea of reactive skills and gameplay. They then told everyone they were doing the complete opposite of that and, using make-up sticks, their twisted 180ยบ logic fooled you all. Because no one wants to really play a reactionary game; it sounds derogatory almost.

Anyway, I should just refer you to a previous rant post of mine from a while ago when this topic cropped up, but the crux is there's no skill involved and it's far more reactionary. Not having the option to pre-prot, buff your team's damage in any meaningful way or apply protection easily. Anet were careful this time to limit how we can deal and absorb damage; there are no unique damage types, melee/elemental buffs, support roles or true synergies in teams.

All this makes the combat system of GW2 shallow and boring. Go play Guild Wars again, relive the good times and play with seven pugs :D

#2166348 Is GW2's combat system a step backwards from GW1?

Posted El Duderino on 19 February 2013 - 03:00 AM

Continued from this post, which was off topic in its current thread: http://www.guildwars...90#entry2166336

View Posttypographie, on 19 February 2013 - 02:24 AM, said:

I missed GW1's beta, but I played since a week or two after its release. ~6,500 hours, last I checked.

I had a great time in GW1, it remains one of my favorite games. But even way back, the combat was just not that varied or dynamic to allow for all this strategic depth some seem to remember. GW2 does that kind of combat much, much better, whatever other flaws it might (and in fact does) have.

Care to elaborate how GW2's combat system is so much better than GW1's? Because, I would argue the opposite.

I mean, you got rid of any real ability to design builds other than what the devleopers want you to have.

You can run through characters, which mean kiting is pretty much ineffective compared to what it used to be.

They added the ability to jump, but that doesn't help you in combat (that I am aware of).

They added the dodge mechanic, which isn't all that impressive.

They pretty much took away utility from the game altogether, no dedicated healing class, nothing like the previous mesmer class, even ranger is severely gimped in abilities from before.

So, how exactly is it SO much better? Sure, you may like it better, but to claim it as being SO much better seems to be a stretch.

#2169085 So quiet now...

Posted Raii on 23 February 2013 - 06:46 AM

I think that the reason why there are so little people out there is that there is nothing new that would very suprise players. I mean it's boring to use 20-30 skills all the time, using same/similar gear. Maybe in GW1 there were too many skills to get so it was hard to get good build but here we have hardcore opposite.
Developing storyline/missions/etc is nice but if still my character works the same, using same skills as 6 months ago it just feels boring.
I even got bored by different trait combinations.
Dunno maybe I'm just not proper player as for this game, just like tons of others are.

#2146337 GW2 worst mmo economy ever?

Posted Redhawk2007 on 19 January 2013 - 07:47 PM

View PostKrazzar, on 19 January 2013 - 06:32 PM, said:

What is the difference between a game with gold sinks and a game without? GW2 and GW1. In GW1 the wealth grew to be so large with nothing to spend it on an alternate currency was adopted because gold was so plentiful it become worthless. You have a system where wealth can be generated from nothing, therefore some of it has to go back to nothing through gold sinks. In a real-world economy there is a limit to the wealth that exists and can be generated, and yet there are proportionally much higher gold sinks through taxes, cost of living, and other expenses. Unfortunately your example would work against your argument; there there is no real downside because no matter what you are doing you will get 15g per week, you really should have set them equal at 20 instead of 15 if you wanted to make an anti-gold sink argument. If your actions are dictated by a currency that is not real you may want to reevaluate your motivations, they are clearly contradictory.

Don't forget GW2 also has methods of acquiring what you need without ever using gold, that being karma and tokens.

I never player GW1 so can't speak for that, but the two examples I gave are equal in terms of inflation because the net discretionary income available to the average player is the same, 15g. The difference is that once achieves this without gold sinks and the other doesn't. There is only so much money the average player can and will make by playing the game.

Inflation and deflation are inevitable in any player-driven economy. Inflation is only a problem if it gets out of hand and even then this is an artificial economy, so it can be easily dealt with by increasing rewards to compensate (as WoW does) or by price fixing in the TP.

The economy is but a means to an end, not an end in itself. It is there so players can get the items they need to play the game, nothing more. The bottom line is not how much inflation there is, but how much real time do you have to invest in the game to afford the things you need to buy. An economy where people are kept poor to prevent them from creating inflation through increased demand for goods makes as much sense as destroying villages to save them from communism. Inflation may be less, but people still can't afford to buy the stuff they need.

In GW2, inflation is caused more by excessive scarcity and monopolization by speculators than it is by excessive demand. If you need x amount of ectos to craft your armor, you need the same amount regardless of the cost so demand for necessities will be stable unless the prices become insanely out of reach of the average player. Gold sinks such as they are aren't much of a hedge against inflation, as people respond to high waypoint costs by not using waypoints as much, which does little to control inflation. Perversely, it may even increase it, as people tend to earn more money killing stuff along the way while avoiding waypoint costs than they would earn if waypoints were free.

You would have to die over 1000 times in WvW to equal the cost of a single Abyss dye (18g last I checked). So how much of a hedge against inflation is that, really? It just discourages people form participating in WvW and that sucks.

Sacrificing game play and player satisfaction to useless gold sinks is foolish. The reason players are kept poor in this game is to drive them to the gem shop, not to control inflation. Inflation is good for Anet because it increases demand for money and thus increases gem purchases. It just sucks for the players.

#2146316 GW2 worst mmo economy ever?

Posted fatality39 on 19 January 2013 - 07:18 PM

Imo, GW2 is bad.  The DR alone makes it bad, but the manipulation from Anet that entices people to buy gems makes it even worse.  Crafting?  What's the point of it besdes leveling up?  I truly feel as though its an action rpg, with a lobby type atmosphere.  You don't leave LA or rather there is zero need to do so.  I haven't played it in a few months and likely won't in the future.  Why?  three reasons:  bland game, bland economy, DR/Anet controlled atmosphere with making money at all.  I guess you can farm gems right?  Go to their site and start a post that dislikes any part of their economy.  See how many infractions you can get.

#2146202 GW2 worst mmo economy ever?

Posted matsif on 19 January 2013 - 03:48 PM

is it the worst I've played in?  No, that was GW1's because of the fact that it was only player to player trading.  without the help of guru you could go days and never sell anything but ectos and shards due to not finding a buyer.  But since you could actually make good money in GW1 through playing the game, it wasn't a big deal.

That doesn't make GW2's economy good.  It's actually horrendously bad for anyone who doesn't like day trading while watching multiple websites and running multiple spreadsheets.  Way too much RNG and horrible drop rates.

I've never played a game where it was so hard to make money from actually playing the game as in GW2.  EvE you could make a good living by mining and refining on an alt that would take little time to level into a good enough role to make good returns (maybe 2 weeks play time since everything in EvE is real time training), or by running t4 missions in a battleship (maybe 1-1.5 months skill training time).  General PVE play is a waste of time if you want to make money, GW1 it was decent.  Dungeons are ok, but there's only so many times I can run CoF1 and AC until it seems like my eyes are bleeding, CoE and HotW rarely have people looking for groups anymore on my server unless I do a guild run, other dungeons either aren't worth it or are horribly designed.  Dragon and temple events are a waste of time because despite the minuscule chance of a precursor dropping, chest drops are horrible in this game.  I rarely even see a yellow gem from the dragons anymore, and outside of temple of dwayna and sometimes grenth I never see people clearing the temples in orr.  What happened to chests being prestigious and worthwhile to go after?  You could make a living in GW1 by chest runs in FoW.  There's only so many times you can complete frostgorge, straights, malchors, and CS to get the completion bonuses, and the rest of world clear isn't great for cash.  Fractals are economically no better than dungeons in my experience until after level 10, and at that point you are gated by gear due to special conditions.

tl;dr, Anet made RNG so bad that the economy is screwed up.  Too much demand on specific items in horribly low supply.

#2146182 GW2 worst mmo economy ever?

Posted caballo_oscuro on 19 January 2013 - 03:14 PM

the economy is one of the main reasons i got bored with the game. everything is focussed on pulling gold out of players pockets and into gold sinks making it very difficult to earn enough to get the shiny things u play the game for.

crafting was fun at first because it encouraged players to craft more but this just destroyed this value of crafted items in days. it's not fun when absolutely everything u make has no return on investment except edging a bar to the right.

the entire economy is geared towards players who enjoy accountancy. once that and the dull grind set in i pretty much downed tools.

now i only log in to catch up with a few friends who aren't on fb...

#2146167 GW2 worst mmo economy ever?

Posted Shiren on 19 January 2013 - 02:34 PM

Reading through the comments on the article I noticed most of the people who seemed to like the GW2 economy liked it because they enjoy spread sheets, note pads and a market simulator in their MMO. Many of the people who disliked it seemed to dislike being forced to participate on all of the former likes. The economy, whether it's a success or not, doesn't appear to be fun for many people, and in a game target towards MMORPG players, shouldn't the focus be on fun instead of hijacking everyone else's game (and loot) to create a mini game for market lovers?

I don't think it's the worst MMO economy ever, but I certainly don't enjoy it in the slightest and it's current design, implementation and execution is one of the biggest flaws the game has. Being forced to compete with spread sheets and incredibly high profits from power traders (who get more rewards from playing less because they play a part of the game given so much power, despite it's fun being very niche) to access so many of the items in this game (instead of accessing them from merchants, awards, achievements and drops). Competing with RNG, inflation, power traders and having no journeys that place my items in the world (unlike gear in WoW which is typcially earned from specific achievements and events in the world, so much of GW2 items are bought for gold or made from pathetically low RNG drop rate materials that you have to buy them) results in a lower quality MMO experience for me. The game would be a lot better if so much of the itemisation had nothing to do with the economy at all and instead was realistically and reasonably achievable from actually playing the game.

#2143962 Guesting Arrives January 28th

Posted Baron von Scrufflebutt on 16 January 2013 - 08:09 PM

View PostSans, on 16 January 2013 - 07:57 PM, said:

You've been playing on 1 server at a time since the end of August when the game lauched, why the hell are you bitching that you can play on 3 different servers per day? which which you can change on a daily basis.

You guys are to stupid to realize that ...

Today = 1 server at a time
January 28th = 3 servers at a time.
+ they're giving you a heads up to switch to you're permanent server.

It's incredible that you guys assume this is somehow a ploy to make people spend money on the cash shop

Today = temporary, insanely shitty solution.
After January 28th = permanent, slightly less shitty than insanely shitty solution.

Having said that, surprisingly, I am not that disappointed. I still absolutely despise the solution, but I guess I am starting to accept the idea to not expect great things from GW2.

#2142010 The Guild Wars 2 Endgame... Let's be realistic here..

Posted Fenice_86 on 14 January 2013 - 10:05 AM

Btw i dont remember so many whiners when GW1 came out... there must be a reason if there are so many in GW2, maybe the 1st was really better than the 2nd

GW was a game based on "player's skill" to make the best Build (Guild Wars aka Build Wars)
GW2 is based on "player's skill" to... dodge? not sure if serious or...

Also... you grind GW2 for cosmetic purpouses only and we have all the armors & weapons with terribles bugs and clipping issues, a lot of them all looks the same (i.e. Medium Armor Trenchcoats Festival)
And while you can tell me they will add more skins as time goes by i do not accept that in all the years they had to build this game their designers missed so many clipping issues with their own works omg! They just did a BAD WORK, no excuses!

They also made that huge mistake with the "gear gap" between exotics and legendaries, trying to fix it with Ascended gears (badly managed too).

The reward system + the RNG system... well better not even start a discussion here isnt it?

Come on GW2 could have been a lot better than this, overall considering they MADE GW1 and they were experienced and aware of what ppl like and dislike

#2141779 The Guild Wars 2 Endgame... Let's be realistic here..

Posted Perm Shadow Form on 14 January 2013 - 01:28 AM

Well... Im still hoping and praying for them to change the skill system... the current system is way too simplistic and provides no customization. I want my Guarduan wiith staff to have completely different skills from a staff guardian next to me.

#2141701 The Guild Wars 2 Endgame... Let's be realistic here..

Posted deluxe on 13 January 2013 - 11:30 PM

View PostLocuz, on 13 January 2013 - 11:25 PM, said:

I dont understand why people cant appreciate GW2 for what it is. Instead of complaining about what it isnt. In my eyes they created an MMO that is the most deserving of the title mmorpg.

The last 2 days ive been casually leveling my asura mesmer to level 15. And i have to tell you there isnt an MMO out there that has single zones that are so packed with lore and diverse content.  

But all i see is people complaining about end game. Endgame Is a mechanic that creates a fake illusion of longetivity. If you look at wow endgame in its current state for example:

- Daily quests/rep grinds.
- Rated pvp where cheaters are condoned (seen the RBG ladders yet?) & non rated pvp that is dominated by bots.
- End game PvE that takes about 3 hours in total per week. So its literally grinding the same instance 20-25 times with a weekly interval.

Is that what you desire so much?
PvP in GW1 was basically the endgame, and it kept me playing for 7+ years.
GW2 has nothing going for it PvP-wise.
Yes I am aware there are going to be additions, but it's not just PvP modes that lack.
It's the whole skill and class setup that is so simplified, everyone plays the game exactly the same way.
There is no room for skill, where GW1 PvP was all about skill. Especially Mesmer, Ranger and Monk.

#2141694 The Guild Wars 2 Endgame... Let's be realistic here..

Posted Fenice_86 on 13 January 2013 - 11:20 PM

View PostPerm Shadow Form, on 13 January 2013 - 11:02 PM, said:

The world is amazingly beautiful

While this is true i hate that every armor as horribles clipping / texture issues if u try to mix them AND with every single weapon in the game (and i talk about humans, if we go watc charr or norn... lol) so many effort in the world so poor in our toons

Not to talk about the skill system and where the best Kiter wins... that's the skill? Kiting? please...

#2141673 The Guild Wars 2 Endgame... Let's be realistic here..

Posted Perm Shadow Form on 13 January 2013 - 11:02 PM

The world is amazingly beautiful, kudos to artists, but there's no real reason to return to those places after 100% world, or after you've finished the heart/DE.

Also, I find it funny, Arena Net reduced the amount of skills because of the balanced, yet they can't even balance the current few skills of each profession..

#2141452 The Guild Wars 2 Endgame... Let's be realistic here..

Posted Baron von Scrufflebutt on 13 January 2013 - 03:56 PM

On a personal level, the lack of an end-game isn't the worst thing that could happen. For instance, I spent thousands of hours in GW1 doing non-end-game content as my end-game. The game was super fun so I kept playing it. Heck, I loaded up GW1 yesterday, did Vizunah and it was a blast!
And that's what I am missing in GW2 - not an end-game, but rather a fun game.