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Offline Last Active Mar 02 2013 02:28 PM

#2166460 Is GW2's combat system a step backwards from GW1?

Posted Minion on 19 February 2013 - 08:56 AM

View Postmatsif, on 19 February 2013 - 03:36 AM, said:

GW2's is more "active" in the sense that you have to dodge instead of tank.  Dodging by itself is more active than most PvE skill bars in GW1 that I played, as GW1 was pretty much spam 1-8 on cooldown/when you had the energy/adrenaline.

GW1 was more reactionary for some classes, especially as a monk or in PvP.  Knowing when to hit the interrupt or healing was very dependent on your reaction time.  GW1 had more skills, making the combat more diverse in that the player had more of a choice over what he wanted to do.  

highlighted for wtf and you're wrong, so so very wrong. Unless you made a typo and meant GW2 is pretty much just spam all skills on recharge... I don't care how many hours you played of Guild Wars, I put over 11k hours in, playing all formats (albeit GvG was shortlived for me and I only participated in a few HA matches), but you cannot say GW2 is not reactionary.

Dodging is reactionary. That should be obvious. Tanking is actually less reactionary, because you can set yourself up to take less damage so you can enter a situation with an upper hand, as opposed to the reactionary method where you must be alert and ready to dodge to avoid damage. This should be obvious. Infact, Guild Wars had reactive skills too, and they were terrible. Empathy, Backfire and Spiteful Spirit were cookie cutter. Anet probably recognised this love for reactive skills and decided to create a whole new game and philosophy based on the idea of reactive skills and gameplay. They then told everyone they were doing the complete opposite of that and, using make-up sticks, their twisted 180ยบ logic fooled you all. Because no one wants to really play a reactionary game; it sounds derogatory almost.

Anyway, I should just refer you to a previous rant post of mine from a while ago when this topic cropped up, but the crux is there's no skill involved and it's far more reactionary. Not having the option to pre-prot, buff your team's damage in any meaningful way or apply protection easily. Anet were careful this time to limit how we can deal and absorb damage; there are no unique damage types, melee/elemental buffs, support roles or true synergies in teams.

All this makes the combat system of GW2 shallow and boring. Go play Guild Wars again, relive the good times and play with seven pugs :D

#2166348 Is GW2's combat system a step backwards from GW1?

Posted El Duderino on 19 February 2013 - 03:00 AM

Continued from this post, which was off topic in its current thread: http://www.guildwars...90#entry2166336

View Posttypographie, on 19 February 2013 - 02:24 AM, said:

I missed GW1's beta, but I played since a week or two after its release. ~6,500 hours, last I checked.

I had a great time in GW1, it remains one of my favorite games. But even way back, the combat was just not that varied or dynamic to allow for all this strategic depth some seem to remember. GW2 does that kind of combat much, much better, whatever other flaws it might (and in fact does) have.

Care to elaborate how GW2's combat system is so much better than GW1's? Because, I would argue the opposite.

I mean, you got rid of any real ability to design builds other than what the devleopers want you to have.

You can run through characters, which mean kiting is pretty much ineffective compared to what it used to be.

They added the ability to jump, but that doesn't help you in combat (that I am aware of).

They added the dodge mechanic, which isn't all that impressive.

They pretty much took away utility from the game altogether, no dedicated healing class, nothing like the previous mesmer class, even ranger is severely gimped in abilities from before.

So, how exactly is it SO much better? Sure, you may like it better, but to claim it as being SO much better seems to be a stretch.

#2169085 So quiet now...

Posted Raii on 23 February 2013 - 06:46 AM

I think that the reason why there are so little people out there is that there is nothing new that would very suprise players. I mean it's boring to use 20-30 skills all the time, using same/similar gear. Maybe in GW1 there were too many skills to get so it was hard to get good build but here we have hardcore opposite.
Developing storyline/missions/etc is nice but if still my character works the same, using same skills as 6 months ago it just feels boring.
I even got bored by different trait combinations.
Dunno maybe I'm just not proper player as for this game, just like tons of others are.

#2143962 Guesting Arrives January 28th

Posted Baron von Scrufflebutt on 16 January 2013 - 08:09 PM

View PostSans, on 16 January 2013 - 07:57 PM, said:

You've been playing on 1 server at a time since the end of August when the game lauched, why the hell are you bitching that you can play on 3 different servers per day? which which you can change on a daily basis.

You guys are to stupid to realize that ...

Today = 1 server at a time
January 28th = 3 servers at a time.
+ they're giving you a heads up to switch to you're permanent server.

It's incredible that you guys assume this is somehow a ploy to make people spend money on the cash shop

Today = temporary, insanely shitty solution.
After January 28th = permanent, slightly less shitty than insanely shitty solution.

Having said that, surprisingly, I am not that disappointed. I still absolutely despise the solution, but I guess I am starting to accept the idea to not expect great things from GW2.

#2142010 The Guild Wars 2 Endgame... Let's be realistic here..

Posted Fenice_86 on 14 January 2013 - 10:05 AM

Btw i dont remember so many whiners when GW1 came out... there must be a reason if there are so many in GW2, maybe the 1st was really better than the 2nd

GW was a game based on "player's skill" to make the best Build (Guild Wars aka Build Wars)
GW2 is based on "player's skill" to... dodge? not sure if serious or...

Also... you grind GW2 for cosmetic purpouses only and we have all the armors & weapons with terribles bugs and clipping issues, a lot of them all looks the same (i.e. Medium Armor Trenchcoats Festival)
And while you can tell me they will add more skins as time goes by i do not accept that in all the years they had to build this game their designers missed so many clipping issues with their own works omg! They just did a BAD WORK, no excuses!

They also made that huge mistake with the "gear gap" between exotics and legendaries, trying to fix it with Ascended gears (badly managed too).

The reward system + the RNG system... well better not even start a discussion here isnt it?

Come on GW2 could have been a lot better than this, overall considering they MADE GW1 and they were experienced and aware of what ppl like and dislike

#2141779 The Guild Wars 2 Endgame... Let's be realistic here..

Posted Perm Shadow Form on 14 January 2013 - 01:28 AM

Well... Im still hoping and praying for them to change the skill system... the current system is way too simplistic and provides no customization. I want my Guarduan wiith staff to have completely different skills from a staff guardian next to me.

#2141701 The Guild Wars 2 Endgame... Let's be realistic here..

Posted deluxe on 13 January 2013 - 11:30 PM

View PostLocuz, on 13 January 2013 - 11:25 PM, said:

I dont understand why people cant appreciate GW2 for what it is. Instead of complaining about what it isnt. In my eyes they created an MMO that is the most deserving of the title mmorpg.

The last 2 days ive been casually leveling my asura mesmer to level 15. And i have to tell you there isnt an MMO out there that has single zones that are so packed with lore and diverse content.  

But all i see is people complaining about end game. Endgame Is a mechanic that creates a fake illusion of longetivity. If you look at wow endgame in its current state for example:

- Daily quests/rep grinds.
- Rated pvp where cheaters are condoned (seen the RBG ladders yet?) & non rated pvp that is dominated by bots.
- End game PvE that takes about 3 hours in total per week. So its literally grinding the same instance 20-25 times with a weekly interval.

Is that what you desire so much?
PvP in GW1 was basically the endgame, and it kept me playing for 7+ years.
GW2 has nothing going for it PvP-wise.
Yes I am aware there are going to be additions, but it's not just PvP modes that lack.
It's the whole skill and class setup that is so simplified, everyone plays the game exactly the same way.
There is no room for skill, where GW1 PvP was all about skill. Especially Mesmer, Ranger and Monk.

#2141694 The Guild Wars 2 Endgame... Let's be realistic here..

Posted Fenice_86 on 13 January 2013 - 11:20 PM

View PostPerm Shadow Form, on 13 January 2013 - 11:02 PM, said:

The world is amazingly beautiful

While this is true i hate that every armor as horribles clipping / texture issues if u try to mix them AND with every single weapon in the game (and i talk about humans, if we go watc charr or norn... lol) so many effort in the world so poor in our toons

Not to talk about the skill system and where the best Kiter wins... that's the skill? Kiting? please...

#2141673 The Guild Wars 2 Endgame... Let's be realistic here..

Posted Perm Shadow Form on 13 January 2013 - 11:02 PM

The world is amazingly beautiful, kudos to artists, but there's no real reason to return to those places after 100% world, or after you've finished the heart/DE.

Also, I find it funny, Arena Net reduced the amount of skills because of the balanced, yet they can't even balance the current few skills of each profession..

#2141452 The Guild Wars 2 Endgame... Let's be realistic here..

Posted Baron von Scrufflebutt on 13 January 2013 - 03:56 PM

On a personal level, the lack of an end-game isn't the worst thing that could happen. For instance, I spent thousands of hours in GW1 doing non-end-game content as my end-game. The game was super fun so I kept playing it. Heck, I loaded up GW1 yesterday, did Vizunah and it was a blast!
And that's what I am missing in GW2 - not an end-game, but rather a fun game.

#2141417 The Guild Wars 2 Endgame... Let's be realistic here..

Posted beadnbutter32 on 13 January 2013 - 02:41 PM

Lets see what facts we can agree on first, before we submerge into fanboy vs troll antics.

There are fewer and fewer new players and more and more existing players are leaving.
The facts are the game is no longer a top seller.  The facts are huge swaths of the game world are empty.
The facts are that most WvW mists rarely ever have ques to get in.

My take on why is that the MMO market is saturated while the potential player base is shrinking due to a bad economy and competition from other forms of entertainment.

Anet spent huge sums over a 5 year period hyping this game as the next big thing in MMO's.  It even had a manifesto that claimed so many of the bugaboos of MMO's would not be there. No grind, No pay to win, cash shop cosmetics and convenience only, play your way, blah blah blah.  This succeeded, GW2 sold a respectable several million copies out of the gate, but then players hit max level, and reported in forums the reality was not equal to the hype.  There is grind, there is pay to win (gambling anyone?),  The trinity was replaced with a twitchy zerg.  Now that there is street information about what the game actually is, sales have fallen off.

No one wants to spend $60 for something they can get for free elsewhere.  The market is flush with Asian grindy gambling free to play titles with just as glitzy graphics.  You can argue about 'are legendaries a grind or pay to win' but the average potential new customer has seen these kind of schemes done over and over and can recognize them for what they are.

The people who buy the game level a character or two and then leave seem to be a majority, while a few find it to their liking and become true fans who cannot understand why the game is in decline.  Every game out there has it's pollyanna fans who just wish everyone else would enjoy the game like they do.  My perception is that GW2 simply does not cut it for enough people, they hype train is over, and it is now a question of how soon does it go free to play.

#2141397 The Guild Wars 2 Endgame... Let's be realistic here..

Posted Perm Shadow Form on 13 January 2013 - 01:56 PM

GW2 is sequel to GW1. They were making this game for 5 years, they should have known what their fans enjoyed the most in GW1, but they ignored that, they wanted to be more of a WoW type game with some "Inovations".
But then again, it's just my opinion. Perhaps most of the people do not enjoy complex games anymore, they just want to jump in and kill stuff.

#2141377 The Guild Wars 2 Endgame... Let's be realistic here..

Posted Perm Shadow Form on 13 January 2013 - 12:58 PM

Yes, I've done them all, and my total play time is only around 300 hours, which isn't all that much.
I could try grinding for legendary, but, not worth it, I personally find them all ugly, same as T3 armor for my main human. (Currently have around 130+ G and almost all maxed crafting levels)

You see, what I enjoyed the most about GW1's elite content wasn't the reward, it was the team play, my role - cleaning wastes in less than 10 minutes, chamber, vale, mountains, everyone in my team was relying on me to not to fail and be fast.

In GW2? Nothing. Fail as much as you want to, there's no punishment expect for repair costs. There are no real tactics, no real skill required, a player who has never played a dungeon before can simply join and be as good as the player next to him who has been playing this dungeon for the past month.

Yes, I'm not a hardcore player who spends 12 hours a day playing a game, but I prefer challenge over laughable and easy content.

I have 100% map, and I've no intentions to play another alt and grind the same zones for lvl 80 again.

Don't get me wrong, i'm nt quitting GW2, YET, still hoping for the Factions expansion to come and fix everything, dull plot, weak PvP and add more skills.

#2141253 The Guild Wars 2 Endgame... Let's be realistic here..

Posted Gileas898 on 13 January 2013 - 06:33 AM

There is no grind in GW2. The developers made sure of that with the ridiculous amount of DR. At the same time you have to spend ridiculous amounts of money to attain anything in this game. It's just frustrating for people who are willing to put a lot of time into building their legendaries / armor sets etc when they see John "The Wallet" Doe walk up next to them with an identical armor set that he bought using money from the cash shop.

View PostThe Comfy Chair, on 13 January 2013 - 01:35 AM, said:

Gw1 took a loooooooooooong time to get all the stuff people say is 'awesome endgame'.

GW2 is insanely better as a launch title. As in, stupidly better.

While this is true, it could be argued that GW2 lacks the fundamentals for being good. A lot of the core game has changed since GW1, and while I hope Arena Net will succeed in making GW2 good, I am not sure they can, because of the poor design decisions they made during development.

#2141179 The Guild Wars 2 Endgame... Let's be realistic here..

Posted I'm Squirrel on 13 January 2013 - 02:57 AM

View Postjthamind, on 13 January 2013 - 12:50 AM, said:

i've never played GW1, so this question isn't intended to sound sarcastic at all. was GW1 as good as it ended up being right from the start, or did it take a while to get there? i'm just curious, because i see people saying GW1 was so good at such and such, but GW2 is still bad in such and such way.

of course, you could say that if certain things were already in a game x amount of years ago, then why couldn't they also have them in this game at launch, which i would agree with. i just hope they bring back some of the awesome sounding ideas from GW1 into this game, because i want more fun content that won't lose its luster so quickly, especially on the PvE side of things.

I thought it was a masterpiece from the start. I remember the game being released, me and four friends all created warrriors and "beat the game" and that was the best adventure i've ever experienced at that time.

The skill system was amazing at release. We had a warrior who would kill and then use his necro abilities to explode the bodies for aoe. We had warriors who used bows and ranger skills, etc. It was all 100% original builds, crafted to however you wanted it.

The story in all the GW1 games make GW2 story seem so lackluster... They had memorable characters, missions, they were all straight to the point-- no "filler" bullsh*t.

No grind for gear, no grind for levels, you simply followed the amazing storyline they had set out. They also had traditional quests for lore, xp, skills, and items-- these were in fact much more enriched in lore and story than GW2's events.

GW1 was 10/10 for me. GW2.... 4/10. But I still play it, sadly. I just hope the next official expansion brings back what GW1 had, god damn, that was a beautiful game.