Jump to content

  • Curse Sites

Konig Des Todes

Member Since 19 Aug 2009
Offline Last Active Aug 16 2016 10:14 PM

Topics I've Started

On Ancient Dates

08 December 2012 - 08:32 AM

Since 2007, thanks to The Movement of the World, most folks interested in lore have been more or less believing the Elder Dragons' last time being awake was around 10,000 BE - the date given to the approximate extinction of the Giganticus Lupicus. This assumption is because ever since said article, the Durmand Priory (note: The Movement of the World was, from a lore standpoint, written by a member of the Durmand Priory) has been leading us all to believe that their last rise was during the Giganticus Lupicus' extinction.

In going through my alt characters earlier today... well, yesterday now seeing its nearly 2 am, I came across an interesting line in the Durmand Priory personal storyline Bad Blood:

<Character name>: Look at this place! It must be tremendously old. Centuries, even.
Magister Sieran: Older than that. The dwarven civilization lasted for more than two thousand years, and this might be one of their first structures.

As many, if not all, lore delvers know by now, the dwarves were among the five sentient races to face and survive the Elder Dragons during their last rise. If this last rise truly did occur in 10,000 BE, then Sieran's statement feels grossly out of place. Sieran's a bit exccentric, but she's no idiot, so she'd know how old dwarven civilization lasted - and seeing how it ended in 1078 AE, 2,000 years prior would be 922 BE. That's nearly 9,000 years off from what we've been told to be the case by the Priory. So why "two thousand years" and not "ten thousand years" - two letter difference ends up making a huge gap in dates.

Given that the dwarves had tools, organization, and writing back during the last Elder Dragon rise it's unlikely they didn't have civilization then. This leads to four likely possibilities in my opinion:
  • Dwarven civilization collapsed after the Elder Dragon fall, but restarted sometime between 1922 BE and 922 BE (reason why I make this range is because from 1922 BE on Sieran would be more likely to say "three (or 4, 5, etc.) thousand years"). This I find unlikely as there's far too many dwarven records and artifacts surviving from the Elder Dragons' rise for a "dark age" in dwarven civilization - not impossible, but unlikely.
  • Sieran's wrong about the date, or it was a typo in development.
  • The Giganticus Lupicus were already extinct during the previous rise of the Elder Dragons, and they in fact were killed of two or more cycles ago.
  • The estimation for the GL's extinction is wrong. After all, we don't know the basis for this estimation or who made it.
Right off the bat, I suspect 3 or 4 to be correct. I have other lines of interest to bring up. From the timeline we're given a very interesting date that's similarly peculiar with regards to the Elder Dragons' last rise:

1769 BE The Forgotten arrive in Tyria.

Originally, we were told that the forgotten were brought to the world by the Six Gods. And we were given this date, supposedly in relation to this notion. However, in GW2 we learn that the forgotten were among the five races that fought the Elder Dragons during their last rise. This placed a shadow of doubt on that original claim (and I myself began wondering if it were the other way around given the forgotten's devoutness to the Six Gods) - but nothing ever stated that the forgotten weren't brought to Tyria by the Six Gods either.

Given that we're told dwarven civilization lasted "over 2,000 years" but not "over 3,000 years" and this date so nicely fits within that very same timeframe that the dwarven civilization would have begun, perhaps there's still truth to the old claim and timeline date.

Of course, this would imply the Six Gods and even humanity were around during the Elder Dragons' last rise. This both does and does not make sense. If one were to assume the Elder Dragons are limited to and around continental Tyria - that there truly were only six Elder Dragons and they all remained mostly around the main continent, the Six Gods could have came to the world and brought the forgotten and humans there and while the humans were away from the conflict, the forgotten (and possibly the Six Gods though I find it unlikely) were in conflict with the Elder Dragons. If this is so, then it may explain why there's a Giganticus Lupicus acting as a Temple Guard in Arah if their extinction wasn't in 10,000 BE but rather closer to ~1,600 BE and the gods were present during this time.

Another peculiarity to me comes from Historian Angelina of the Priory:

"Early pre-imperial era? What? That can't...oh, I'm sorry. Did you need something?"

"That can't" ... what?  For reference (and avoiding the wiki page), she's researching the Elder Dragons too - obviously in relation to Cantha. The only thing I can think of from "that can't" is "that can't be right" given the wording. The interesting bit about this is "Early pre-imperial era" - the only year we have in correlation to this era is 10,000 BE. If that can't be right, why not? And if it's not "right" that should finish her interrupted thoughts, what is? The rest of her dialogue, when talking to characters of the Priory, is about the Elder Dragons going through cycles - so as this stands, I can only assume she's stumbling upon a second previous cycle of the Elder Dragons. That, or a Canthan Elder Dragon.

As things stand given the above lines, I'm inclined to believe the following:
  • Either the Giganticus Lupicus did die around 10,000 BE, but not during the last ED rise; or they died during the last ED rise, which was far more recent than 10,000 BE.
  • The previous ED rise was in about 1,700-780 BE (I cannot fathom it being after the establishment of the Empire of the Dragon, however if their rise was much closer to it than we thought, maybe there's a reason why its named such).
  • The Six Gods were around for the last ED rise, but most likely didn't know of Zhaitan's resting place (after all, Arah was where Glint was freed from her corruption - it would be odd if the forgotten brought her to Zhaitan's front yard to free her of corruption).
  • This would also explain why while the Six Gods arrived on the world at Arah, humanity thrived in the south - they were taken to away from the Elder Dragons. Though it begs the question of what the Six did in relation to the Elder Dragons if this is so.
This situation also explains how we can find so many records of the Elder Dragons. Sure, they're hard to find, but what's being discovered are engraved stones and parchment that's all still legible - that stuff I find unlikely to last and be readable after 11,000 years (particularly the later) without some sort of protection.

On Mordremoth, the Sixth Elder Dragon, and its corruption methods

05 December 2012 - 01:57 AM

Today, I finally got around to doing the third path for Crucible of Eternity (CoE) (third for me that is) and being able to observe the dungeon in its full. As such, I'd like to present my full view on the matter of the Sixth Elder Dragon's identity and means of corruption (which is more or less in half-agreement half-disagreement with the general public's view). I'd post this in one of the pre-existing threads, but I fear they're either all too focused on a single particular aspect of the general public's view.

Subject Alpha
As some may or may not know, the main enemy in is an Inquest-created multi-Elder Dragon minion known as "Subject Alpha" - this creature uses abilities reminiscent/named after four Elder Dragons and a "Mordremoth" - specifically, it's skills are as follows:

*Imprisonment Crystal (Branded crystal)
*Summoning Undead Tendril (Risen Tendril)
*Summoning Risen Asura (self-explanatory)
*Teeth of Primordus (Dragon's Tooth-esque skill - a fiery rock spike from the sky)
*Teeth of Jormag (a mixture of ice and rock spikes from the ground)
*Teeth of Mordremoth (a row of earth spikes)

The first three are used in every path, while the first three are used only in 2 paths each in a very specific manner (more on this later).

Now, of the three paths, you fight a major legendary boss before the third time fighting Subject Alpha - these foes are Evolved Destroyer, Evolved Husk, and Bjarl the Rampager (an icebrood).

The Evolved Destroyer uses a skill "Tooth of Primordus" - and in the path that leads to it, Subject Alpha does not use Teeth of Primordus.
Bjarl the Rampager uses the Teeth of Jormag skill - and in that path, Subject Alpha does not use it.
The Evolved Husk, as far as I know (I didn't think of checking) does not use a Mordremoth skill, however during that path Subject Alpha does not use Teeth of Mordremoth.

Seeing the connection yet? Let's continue.

Nightmare Court's influence (and not)
The Evolved Husk is, to put it simply, a powerful Summoned Husk - giant plant creatures seen only with the Nightmare Court outside CoE. Along with the Evolved Husk, there are Summoned Husks, Burning Husks, Nightmare Hounds, and Volatile Blossoms in this portion of CoE (similarly, outside CoE in same corner of the Infinity Coil Reactor, at the PoI Zone Green, there are Volatile Blossoms again) - all of which are found in relation to the Nightmare Court outside CoE. This fact has led quite a few folks to further their thoughts of "Pale Tree=Elder Dragon/dragon champion" - I'd like to state here and now, I do not believe this is so, and I feel I can almost disprove this notion. Here is why:

Firstly, on the Husks:
During the meta event in Wychmire Swamp, aptly named The Battle for Wychmire Swamp, the meta event begins with a Warden, Gamarien, who states "I'm scouting Wychmire Swamp for Nightmare Court activity, though I fear an even darker force is at work. I worry these summoned husks are harbingers of a greater foe." And while there are two Nightmare Courtiers met during the first event of the chain, they indeed hold no other influence over the meta. This meta focuses on fighting "Blighted Husks" and "Blighted Grubs" ending with a battle with a giant jungle wurm (fun fact: jungle wurms are also called Nightmare Vines in Twilight Arbor, this combined with their appears implies they're plants, not wurms).

This indicates that there's a second source of these Husks other than Nightmare Court.

On Nightmare Hounds specifically, there is mention in the Town of Cathal in Caledon Forest (marked by a waypoint) that "It's more than just their heart that is tainted by nightmare. Their very bodies shift into something darker and more malevolent." when asked about trying to heal the Nightmare Court's Thorn Hounds.

As things stand, this is all evidence that would state the Nightmare Court at the very least is tied to this Mordremoth. And I'd agree, but not go so far as to say the Pale Tree. Because there are things unrelated to the sylvari who are corrupted by what I'll dub the "Blighted" (as that's the naming system given in the Wychmire Swamp meta).

In Ogham Wilds of Caledon Forest, there is an event where Nightmare Courtiers are attempting to corrupt some Mosshearts - and they may succeed, if so we're tasked in killing them. The thing to note is that these Mosshearts hold the same appearance as the Nightmare Tree fought in Twilight Arbor explorable, though much smaller and mobile. One thing to note is that while sylvan hounds (aka thorn/nightmare hounds) coincide with sylvari, the treants (mosshearts, oakhearts, pinesouls, and willowhearts) do not - they predate sylvari. Yet they can be corrupted in the same manner.

The Dream of Dreams vs. the Nightmare
By lore, the very origin of the nightmare comes from the Dream of Dreams. To use The Movement of the World's wording:
"But the Dream of Dreams also contains nightmares—hidden whispers behind the voices of their fellow Sylvari. They do not understand what it means—but the Sylvari have yet to experience much of the world around them."

From what I remember - and unfortunately I'm not certain of the source - the first sylvari to fall to nightmare was Faolain (though it was Cadyern who created the Nightmare Court later). This occured in Orr when Faolain and Caithe saw the horrors there, and when Caithe turned away from it (the nightmare) Faolain went towards it. Though to me this doesn't make as much sense in of itself - but this does tell a striking simility to Jora and Svanir, if one were to replace Jora with Caithe, Svanir with Faolain, and Drakkar with the nightmare.

Make of it what you will. I make of it as the nightmare originating from an Elder Dragon - thus the Elder Dragon is corrupting through the Dream of Dreams. (I doubt there's going to be much disagreement on this).

Mordremoth's corruption
Given all of the examples above, this shows the corruption method of Mordremoth (I'll just be using this as the otherwiseu named Sixth Elder Dragon). With some rare exceptions, these "Blighted" are all plants. These exceptions being the few grubs seen in the Wychmire Swamp meta (and possibly those "Corrupted Grub"s found in Ogham Wilds near the Mosshearts mentioned above), jungle wurms, and the Nightmare Court's spiders.

Now on the spiders, this may simply be a case of the NC taming them like any run of the mill ranger. And that's my personal supicion.

And on the jungle wurms - as mentioned before, the same exact model is called a vine - indicating these "wurms" are in fact plants. Their models would concur with this. The question comes in their eggs as there's a heart in Metrica Province dealing with Jungle Wurm Eggs. My only guess would be that these are a peculiar kind of plant.

This would indicate that with the rare exception of creatures tied greatly with plantlife, Mordremoth only corrupts plants. Just as Primordus only twists rock and lava, and Zhaitan's minions are all undead, and Jormag corrupts mentally and by promising power, Mordremoth has his own peculiar corrupting methods.

What's interesting to note is that the Nightmare Court hold a similar fanaticism for the nightmare as Elder Dragon minions. Though with a twist of sadism mixed in.

The issue of sylvari being immune to corruption
There's a perplexity in all of this, however, and that's the Nightmare Court themselves. Sylvari are immune to all Elder Dragons' corruption - or at least they are to Jormag's, Zhaitan's, Primordus' (obviously), and Kralkatorrik's corruption. They simply die instead of being corrupted (in Jormag and Kralkatorrik's case, as Zhaitan and Primordus doesn't corrupt living beings - just dead ones and none respectively). Thus, this makes little sense why the Nightmare Court would be minions of Mordremoth. One would think any sylvari Mordremoth tries to corrupt would die.

But there are a few possibilities with this:

Firstly, this immunity may be physical immunity only, not mental. As one may note, Nightmare Courtiers can very easily pass as normal sylvari by appearance alone. Some of the generic models are darker toned, but the unique ones are just as bright as anyone else - this was likely done so that NC NPCs can be easily picked out (similar to how it's easy to spot a Son of Svanir or Flame Legion charr - all of which have peculiar dying appearances, e.g., many Flame Legion NPCs which aren't glowing with fire are usually white stripped orange furred). If the immunity is only physical, then a corruption that is solely and purely mental would work around it - counter-argument is Jormag's corruption is mental - counter-counter-argument is that icebrood still are, well, made of ice eventually.

Second possibility, and most likely, is that the Nightmare Courtiers are not being corrupted - instead, they're spreading it. Similar to the Sons of Svanir - they are not corrupted by Jormag, but influenced by him and nonetheless are capable of spreading his corruption despite not being made of ice. Counter-argument could be that channeling corruption still corrupts, just slower; counter-counter-argument would be that since each Elder Dragon corrupts differently, this may not be the case for Mordremoth.

Third possibility is as an NPC in the game (forget where) believes - the other Elder Dragons don't know enough of sylvari physiology to corrupt them, but in this case Mordremoth, having a connection to the Dream of Dreams, does.

Side note:
The main reason why I don't affiliate the Pale Tree with this all is threefold:
1. Malyck shows no signs of being like the Nightmare Court which, by definition of the Pale Tree being a dragon champion turned good like the all-too-common hypothesis claims, would be the "natural sylvari."
2. While I believe the Dream of Dreams is being used by Mordremoth to spread his corruption, the White Stag proves that the Dream of Dreams is not unique to sylvari, and Malyck proves that not all sylvari are tied to the Dream of Dreams.
3. There are too many things not tied to the Pale Tree being corrupted (spiders, wurms, treants, grubs).

Why Abaddon turned evil

27 November 2012 - 03:06 AM

So while completing the wiki's article on the Orrian History Scrolls, something struck me interestingly when I re-read them in detail, particularly about Abaddon (and less so, the other gods too). The specific dialogue I am going to refer to is here. Please read through it before reading my post, so that you may develop your own idea on it.

A short recap on the story of Abaddon:
Abaddon was the God of Secrets and Water, his most devout followers being the Margonites. In 1 BE, he tampered the original bloodstone and gave magic in large quantities to the races of Tyria which was subsequently taken away from them when the other five gods, after being pleaded by King Doric, divided the bloodstone into five parts and dumped it into the largest volcano on the RIng of FIre (aptly named Abaddon's Mouth). Abaddon hated this and fought against the other five gods on the southern edge of the Crystal Sea, having sent the Horde of Darkness - an elite group of demonic Margonites - to attack the Gate of Heaven (whatever this may be). He was defeated, of course - his defeat raising the sea and turning its coastline into the Desolation, the sea itself becoming the Crystal Desert (which may or may not have existed prior to as well). Abaddon was then sealed into the Realm of Torment along with his fanatic followers. What follows after that, irrelevant to this discussion.

Now, it was never explained why Abaddon gave magic to the world or why Abaddon disagreed with limiting it. This has been left up in the air for who knows how long. I believe I might have found a hint to what that reasoning was - well, outside the obvious following of his apparent motto of "Act with magic, act within reason, act without mercy."

From the Orrian History Scrolls on the Six Gods, there are a few lines of special note. Firstly, from Abaddon's entry which at first glance gives nothing to us:

Among them was Abaddon—once secret-keeper, now betrayer. How you have fallen from the glorious days of old. What passed beyond in the Mists, only you remember. Abaddon, Abaddon. Your name has been erased from the towers, your cathedral condemned to the sea. Turn your faces away, oh sons and daughters, and let not his gifts tempt you.

The bolded line is the sole piece of importance. This could obviously refer to Abaddon being imprisoned in the Realm of Torment, but I find this unlikely - this is not something only Abaddon would remember. Of course, these are written in prose and thus might not be literal, so there's a chance this is indeed in reference to that and how knowledge of him was removed.

And alone, it'd be natural to assume so. However, take in lines from the other gods' entries. For starters, let's begin with Dwayna:

The first of the gods to step forth from the mists was Dwayna, goddess of air and life. She placed her pale foot on the stones of Arah, opened the gates, and brought humanity to the world. She chose Tyria and brought with her those who would make this world a paradise. As she had promised, Dwayna led her people to peace.

There's a few things to dissect here. First, the underlined bit: this implies that Arah had been in existence as Dwayna landed. Of course, the same sentence implies humanity also first stepped foot on the world at Arah, but we know that they existed on Cantha before Orr. However, we do know that the location of Arah had structures - built by the forgotten - as we learn in the Arah explorable dungeon. This means Dwayna was likely guided there, I presume by the forgotten given the structure's origins and the fact that the forgotten are servants of the Six Gods.

From the bold, we learn that Dwayna made the decision to go to Tyria and that she was seeking to create a better world, a paradise. If one seeks to make a paradise, that usually means they are leaving something which is not, and cannot be made a paradise - otherwise, they'd be spreading paradise, not making it. In other words, the place where the Six Gods comes from had problems that Dwayna could not fix.

Now, from the section on Lyssa, which is far more important:

The two who are one, Issa and Lys,[sic] brought with her the hope and beauty of humanity. While the other gods focused on building Arah and beginning a new future, Lyssa gave them joy and helped them forget the past. For a while she lived, veiled and hidden, in the village of Wren. When the building of Arah was completed Lyssa was commanded to join the other gods, though her tears fell like rain among the western road.

Originally when I read this, I thought the bolded line was what Lyssa did for humanity. However, on a second readthrough, the sentence is talking about Lyssa giving the other gods joy and helped the gods forget the past.

This, combined with the underlined - that the gods worked to begin a new future, e.g., a new start - means that there was something that at least Lyssa wanted the others to forget. Something that brought the other gods sadness.

Now combine this with the line from Dwayna's - that she sought to make a paradise - and the fact they came from somewhere else bringing humanity with them. This sounds like they were fleeing something. What that something is remains a mystery to us. But now add on the line from Abaddon's section - that he remembers.

In other words, there was a past calamity, the Six Gods fled this calamity and brought humanity with them. As the gods worked to begin anew, Lyssa effectively did a mind wipe on them, but failed with Abaddon. He remembered, being the "secret-keeper," and he acted, thus "betraying" the other gods.

I believe, from this, that Abaddon's actions was in order to prevent a return of this unknown calamity that the other gods had forgotten about. Thus, he was imprisoned not for being evil, but for being misunderstood (of course, after a thousand years of torment and solitude, even Abaddon would go evil by the time of Nightfall).

(And for the real conspiracy nut: add in the fact Lyssa was the one who ordered us to kill Abaddon in Nightfall, and the various Devoted fought during Temple of the Forgotten God personal story mission and how they're all mesmers, and one being the Devoted of Illusions)

The possibility of more dragons *Spoilers*

24 October 2012 - 06:10 PM

As many people know by now, ancient jotun stelae accounts a total of six Elder Dragons. However, I have two pieces of evidence which support that there may be in fact many more out there.

The first is the Arah explorable dungeon. Specifically, the jotun path. The purpose of the path is to find an ancient jotun magical telescope taken in by the Six Gods. Said telescope's original purpose was to study the stars in order to decern when the Elder Dragons would rise again. At the end of the dungeon path, you find the telescope and the scholar's theory is proven true. Not only that, she says that a new star is born when an Elder Dragon rises. There is then a cinematic that plays, which shows the formation of a new star. (here's a video of it that I found)

It's five years too late to be Kralkatorrik, indicating that a new Elder Dragon has risen.

The second piece of evidence is Trahearne. Specifically, his dialogue after completing Victory or Death in Caer Aval - the new instance added in the halloween updates. Here, he says "Across the world, the dragons are rising." - note two key factors.

First, "across the world" would imply more than just continental Tyria. But how would he know of outside the continent when they've been cut off? The answer is simple: the Order of Whispers has access to Elona, knows of the mysterious deep sea dragon, wants all Elder Dragons gone, and is implied to have knowledge of the entire world as in the Chantry of Secrets there is a full globe. The Master of Whispers would likely find it beneficial to let the Pact know of all Elder Dragon threats, since that's the Pact's purpose and they've shown to be effective against Zhaitan.

Second, "rising" - present tense, not past. This indicates that there are still more waking up, and they're doing so now, possibly due to the death of Zhaitan. If Trahearne was referring to the four known to be awake, he wouldn't be using present tense.

So it begs the question, how many dragons are there and what kind of aspects of nature do they hold?

On the persona of the Elder Dragon

05 October 2012 - 07:18 PM

This had came up on the official forum's lore forum and I went into a bit of detail on this over there, and it seems to have caught some interest so I figured I'd bring this up over here and see what you all think.

Through observation of the Elder Dragons and their minions via GW2 and Edge of Destiny, I have come to the conclusion that each Elder Dragon has a distinctive "personality" - or rather, desire - that controls their actions (and in turn, the actions of their minions). This line of thought was originally inspired by a comment Thalador made to me in game where he mentioned some of Zhaitan's minions speaking of immortality gained through him, and it brought me back to an old thought process I had when I first read Edge of Destiny. Before going into detail, I believe that the ED’s personalities can summarized as desires; effectively:
  • Primordus desires destruction
  • Jormag desires power
  • Zhaitan desires immortality
  • Kralkatorrik desires perfection
I cannot denote the deep sea dragon (referred to as "DSD" for simplicity) or the mysterious sixth dragon (referred to as "Sixth" for simplicity) due to the lack of knowledge on them, unfortunately. Now to elaborate further...


From Edge of Destiny, on Kralkatorrik’s thoughts, we’re told that his mind is “like standing in the eye of a cyclone” (pg390) and that “the center of every vortex is a great emptiness-a hollow longing. The storm tries to fill the emptiness, but more it hungers, the deeper the the emptiness becomes.” (391) And as Snaff became what Kralkatorrik wasn’t, the harder Kralk tried to obtain Snaff. This ties into how the branded’s minds are in the book – they’re fanatic, but more than that. They’re seeking to give Kralkatorrik all they can. In other words, Kralkatorrik is attempting to obtain all that he is not yet. And when one obtains everything, they become “perfect.”


Zhaitan is another story. His minions denounce their faiths, despite how faithful the Orrians were they blasphemy the gods and call the Mists “lies.” (all Orr personal story bosses as well as some meta event bosses) But on top of this, they also say that Zhaitan is truth, and Zhaitan is the only true means of obtaining immortality. And through serving Zhaitan, by empowering him, they can obtain that. Where Kralkatorrik forces fanaticism, Zhaitan feeds lies of knowledge and longevity. And in a way, what better way to obtain immortality than through undeath – once you half the rotting process (which seems to be true for risen), there is no more aging. Thus, you have a form of eternal youth, and through becoming more powerful that eternal youth becomes invincible – thus “immortal.”


Jormag’s unique in his corruption. As Khrigar Ripjaw in Safewatch Vale says, where other Elder Dragons corrupt to enslave, Jormag first promises power prior to corrupting. He entices those who will become icebrood to join him willingly, and corrupts through the mind whereas Kralkatorrik does physically and Zhaitan does magically. Through this, he tempts his minions to become stronger, and oddly, he is the only Elder Dragon who’s minions work alongside non-corrupted creatures – icebrood are often seen alongside non-corrupted Sons of Svanir as “gifts” of their devotion, but on top of this as seen through events and stories like Honor of the Waves, Jormag blesses those who prove themselves with more power – his power. He is creating an army of those who desire power, whereas others are merely creating armies and anything they can obtain. As such, by using those who crave power, he ensures that he himself will become more "powerful."


My reasoning for linking Primordus to destruction isn’t in its minions names. Rather, it ties to the minions’ actions and how he corrupts. Unlike all other Elder Dragons (except possibly the DSD), Primordus does not corrupt living beings. At all. He creates mimicries of living creatures instead. His minions themselves seem to hold one objective, to kill everything that lives. Since Eye of the North, that is the main thing they were said to desire – and though I can’t recall where, it was said that the Great Destroyer’s purpose was to eliminate life to make the way for Primordus. So if Primordus didn’t want to kill everything, why would eliminating life make the way for him? Perhaps “destruction” isn’t as accurate as “genocide” would be.


A small attempt to determine what the DSD may have for a desire. In the Movement of the World, we're told that it twists water itself - similar to Primordus, it doesn't seem to corrupt living beings, though we can't be certain of this yet. Along with this, we're told by largos that the ocean depths are now filled with "horrors" (sounds very lovecraftian to me). This in of itself doesn't give much, but it does remind me of a certain NPC who corrupts living beings and transforms them in GW1: Kanaxai. Kanaxai is called a demon, though its origins unknown, and appears fairly humanoid. However, it corrupts and torments individuals by nightmares and horrors, turning them into Oni. Take note, that Oni had tentacles on their faces. And that Kanaxai was underwater when he was trapped by the Jade Sea. Not a solid connection, but a possible one.

Interesting to note is that these aspects of Kanaxai are also shared with Abaddon, though the "corruption of humans" are a bit different (shimmery and aetheral, with fish-like skin - whereas Kanaxai's "corruption of humans" turns them into grey and... actually a tad bit insect like I think - not really sure how to define that)

If this connection is true, then I would thus link the DSD with the concept or desire of "psychopathy" "madness" or "insanity." Something that horrors would often bring (once more, sounding lovecraftian).


This one's even harder, though similar to the DSD, we're given two hints at the Sixth's nature, both coming from Zone Green of the Infinite Coil Reactor in Mount Maelstrom. As many may know by now, Zone Green is overgrown with vegetation. This in of itself indicates a "nature" dragon. However, what's just as common place as vegetation there is poison. Similarly, one may find out that the Infinite Coil Reactor was built after the Thaumanova Reactor exploded - as a replacement to the Thaumanova Reactor. Take note that the Thaumanova Reactor also has 6 sections to it - though it lacks a "zone black" counterpart. The vegetation section of it has an event with a "poison creature" - specifically, a rotting oakheart (a similar one can be found in Greatheart Weald of Queensdale during an event). These oakhearts are oddly shining despite being called "rotting."

Sadly, this doesn't really give any indication to the dragon's persona, though it does give a line of thought when one considers that for Zhaitan and Primordus, their element is tied to their persona (undeath is a form of faux immortality; fire destroys and burns things) - thus poison would in turn suffocate life. Through such, I would denote on the lack of further information, that the Sixth's persona and desire would be "pain" or "agony" - effectively, "sadism."

Though I still wouldn't put much faith onto the conclusions of the DSD and Sixth's.