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#2084184 Forget about Ascended gear, Has Anet been honest about anything?

Posted DuskWolf on 17 November 2012 - 12:49 AM

View PostGW Corrupted, on 16 November 2012 - 10:14 PM, said:

There are plenty of other people worthy of talking to other than ANet.  Why are you so invested in others' conversations that you think they should be deleted?
The obvious: Reasonable doubt.

There's some part of his brain that's pushing past the wall of cognitive dissonance, and he's slowly beginning to realise that this isn't the incredible game he deludes himself into believing it is. That the money he spent might not have been justified. That they actually have a point and that there are a lot of logical, constructive, genuine arguments against the current state of the game. And ultimately, if you remove these things, it makes it much more easy for you to delude yourself into believing that GW2 in its current state is brilliant.

Personally, I think it'd be more helpful if he'd come down to reality and complain with the rest of us. The more people voicing concern against this becoming a monotonous, treadmill game, the more chance we have of actually seeing it fixed. A lot of things need to be done, but one is to focus more on fun, varied content instead of adding a treadmill. The problem with GW2 is that it keeps implementing content that isn't fun. I'll explain.

So... due to a friend's pesterings, I poked my nose into the new Lost Shores content. What did it have me doing? Gathering flotsam and jetsam from a beach. So I was essentially a janitor, and that's the problem with WoW - in WoW you're a janitor with weapons, in GW2 you're mostly a janitor with weapons. The content just simply isn't fun. It's copy-pasted, too. It mostly revolves around either kill thing, or press button to interact with thing.

If the content was fun, then they wouldn't need a treadmill. The treadmill is operant conditioning through and through, it's taking advantage of weak-minded addictions in order to make up for a game which simply isn't fun. But there are plenty of single- and multi-player games which don't need a treadmill to be fun. I was recently playing the indie game Deadlight. That didn't need one, it was fun because it was atmospheric and I was pulled into the story. Arguments that state that a treadmill is needed are fallacious bordering on felonious.

And GW2 needs a treadmill. Why does it? The content isn't fun. In The Secret World you have investigations to break up things. In Champions Online you have neat missions like the sky carrier defence, or the Whiteout investigations (where you learn about a race of shapeshifting aliens, and that mission is filled with paranoia, it's great). In Torchlight II you have puzzle rooms in dungeons that you can solve with friends.

Not only that, but they could make the combat more fun. They could speed up movement speed of players and foes inside and outside of combat, they could make it more nippy and fun feeling, they could provide a greater variety of skills (rather than most skills being copy-pasted versions of other skills with different skins), they could have their AI be tactical (like buffing, healing, and resurrecting friendlies). These are things that games like GW1 and Champions Online already do. It wouldn't be impossible to put these things in GW2.

Let me put an idea in your head right now: Chainsaws. Engineers are desperate right now for a good weapon, and imagine how fun that would be! And how about mobile drones? How about an arachnidrone which you could switch between healing and attack modes? It's something you'd have to defend, but in attack mode it could help defend you. There are so many things you could do with the engineer to make it more fun. And that's what this game lacks - fun.

It doesn't have fun, varied content. It has stale, copy-pasted content. The same goes for combat skills. Now, they could obey the rule of fun and improve the combat and add more variety to the content. They could put in chainsaws and some fun actual puzzles in jumping puzzle areas, maybe riddles and things, you know, to break up the monotony. They could do that, but what are they doing instead? They're adding a treadmill.

The treadmill is the most predatory thing you could add to an MMORPG. Why? It preys on the weak-of-mind and their addictive personalities, it makes someone want to play with the promise of bigger numbers. Opernat conditioning. That's lazy. They know it. I know it. That's the easy answer. So instead of fixing their professions, their combat, and their content, they're just going to opt for addicting people to treadmills instead. Well that's great.

Now, here's the thing. I think Rickter and people like him are beginning to see why there are complaints about this, why it's depressing. And their cognitive dissonance is fading. I'm hoping that soon enough they'll join with complaints like mine so that we can be a unified voice against this nonsense. Is operant conditioning as a form of content okay? Do we really like treadmills? Really? I think it's not okay. Let's tell ArenaNet that, let's tell them not to opt for the lazy answer.

So... you guys go back to picking up trash off the beaches, as monotonous and bloody dull as that is. I'll go and play something that's fun. Again, the rule of fun matters, here. I just want to know whom it was at ArenaNet that thought that picking up trash off a beach equated to fun content. I want to know because I want to slap them, and then I might slap them again because that would be cathartic. All the time I've been talking about how GW2 embraces its ability to be unfun. It shouldn't. It really shouldn't.

Again, I'll note, that GW2 is the only game I know of which manages to have an unfun flamethrower. They could make it fun, but they're adding a treadmill. So no, I don't think that's okay. I'm still hoping that the ArenaNet I once liked is still in there, somewhere, and that they're going to do something about this. But really, people... can we set aside the cognitive dissonance? This isn't a fun game. That's why they're adding a treadmill.

Let's help them figure out why this isn't a fun game, and demand that they at least try to fix that, instead of opting for the easy way out (turning GW2 into WoW).

#2081632 Forget about Ascended gear, Has Anet been honest about anything?

Posted Kymeric on 15 November 2012 - 10:20 PM

View PostRickter, on 15 November 2012 - 10:16 PM, said:

bottom line, you are not paying every month to play this game.  you do not have the right to demand new content.  you get what you are given for free.

It's commerce, there's no right to demand anything.  There is, however, voting with your money.  Does the game currently make you want to pay for cash shop items and future expansions, or doesn't it.

Don't make too much of the lack of subscription.  ANet still needs to keep most players playing.

View PostRed_Falcon, on 15 November 2012 - 10:19 PM, said:

It would be so much easier to wait for the full infos instead of making a week of crying and conspiracy theories every single update.

But then people would have nothing to do while they are at work, and can't log in and play.

#2080943 Forget about Ascended gear, Has Anet been honest about anything?

Posted DuskWolf on 15 November 2012 - 04:02 PM

View PostCalmLittleBuddy, on 15 November 2012 - 03:59 PM, said:

...so much nonsense...
People voice their thoughts publically because it might knock some sense into other people, for one thing, who're still suffering from delusions via the way of cognitive dissonance. Another reason is to worry the company with public dissent. Seeing a lot of very public dissent that they can't stop will do more to make them change their ways than a nice email.

As has been said, they're a for-profit company. You need to hit them in the wallet. We need to stop bending over and taking it up the arse. They lied to us, they broke their promises, and they betrayed us. We need to tell them that that's not okay. To be honest? I won't be someone's bitch just because of a little thing like cognitive dissonance.

#2080907 Forget about Ascended gear, Has Anet been honest about anything?

Posted DuskWolf on 15 November 2012 - 03:39 PM

It really has been a colossal disappointment.

I was hoping for a game which was a natural evolution of Champions Online. I'm looking for fun, kinetic gameplay which allows and requires people to zip around and be mobile, I was hoping for character building which is similar to CO and Guild Wars 1, where you could truly build your character. I was hoping for fun.

On that count? They failed. The engineer isn't anything like what I would have hoped. It's an incredibly dull class. The design of it is just so timid, it's like they were soiling themselves over the thought of a small-minded minority screamig but this isn't fantasy. How you can make a flamethrower unfun is beyond me. And then you have chainsaws. Why do the engineers not have them as a melee option? The engineer could have been a melee class in steampunk, heavy armour, with a chainsaw and a good (crowd control-oriented) flamethrower as their primary weapon. They could have been backed up by robots with different roles.

We could have had a flamethrower that did things like casting an 'I AM ON FIRE!!!' debuff on foes, which would make them run around screaming, flailing, as if they were actually on fire until one of their companions actually used water or healing on them to deal with it. Or until the debuff timed out on its own. But none of this is there. The flamethrower is just a condition damage device that barely hits, and this touches upon another issue.

Mobs are dumb. In Guild Wars 1, you're used to smart mobs. It's a glorious sight. Melee mobs will body block you to keep you away from ranged and support mobs. There will be some mobs which are good at healing (like the Guardian), who would help with buffing, healing, and resurrecting downed foes in GW1. But GW2 doesn't have this. The combat is an endless zerg. The foe runs at you, and it's a sterile trading of blows back and forth.

In CO, when a foe is about to die, they make a mad dash for a group of allied foes to try and draw you into another fight. In GW2 foes continue to kamikaze-rush you until they die. What this means is that the game is all about the numbers of you versus the numbers of your foe. You swing, they swing. This goes against the more skill-based game that they promised us, and now there's a new tier of items, meaning things are even more number based.

They promised us grandiose cities, they didn't deliver. The cities are tiny when you compare them with truly impressive cities in MMOs. Look at how Champions Online or Everquest II does a city and you'll be impressed. They really have an incredible sense of scale, there's even content in the cities. We were promised that, too, and they didn't deliver. Do you know what else we were promised? Content in the home instances for all races. They didn't deliver on that, either.

So most of the time we spend our time out in the field dealing with zerging mobs in copy-pasted dynamic events. This is a game that could have used another two or three years in the pot, to be honest, because most of it is terrible. But it gets worse. They took out body blocking, thus removing one of a mob's most tactical abilities, same for the player. Being able to physically block a foe (for you or the mob) is a handy tactical maneuver, and that's just not there.

We were promised a companion, because that would be fun. Someone we could take around with us on content to add to the tactical feel of the game. But apparently this would have made things too easy due to the kamikaze, zerging mobs. So what do they do? They take out the companion, they don't deliver on that, eiither. They promise us account-wide dyes, and they backpedal on that and make it per character instead.

They promise us a lack of grind, but the game was grind-heavy in beta 1. And every option that seemed to alleviate the grind was 'rebalanced.' People were even banned for taking advantage of low-priced armour, just because ArenaNet clearly wants you to grind. This sounded alarm bells in my head, and this was one of the things that made me sit back and really look at this game and how much it fails to deliver on every front.

They promised us 'our story,' and our story starts off with us working with Destiny's Edge. Instead we get bait & switched with this Trahearne sylvari who's Universally hated (look for the threads here, on the official forums, on just about every forum, or anywhere on the Internet, and I'm sure you already hate him yourself). Instead of taking orders from our racial Destiny's Edge coordinator, we had him.

And we had him hogging the limelight and attending every mission he shouldn't have. He came with us when he should have been back at base, planning. And then, on the final fight, where his presence as backup might have been helpful? He was completely absent! Now imagine the inverse of this, Destiny's Edge - they stay out of your way and simply give you information to act on. But at the end, in the final fight, they're there to provide backup against Zhaitan. Wouldn't that be amazing?

So they completely failed to deliver on content in the post 50 zones. Then you have the potential of the races. The charr could have had chainsaws, and jetpacks. They could have had races involving their cars as a city activity. They could have used helicopters to get around their large city (if it was large), they could have had a city that looked like the concept art. Instead, it was tame, and quite frankly crap. They completely failed to capitalise on their potential, and in the end, the charr feel like a cheap dollar store knock-off of what they could have been.

Then you have the asura. The asura are stuck with asthetics stolen from games like Phantasy Star Online and Star Ocean 2, they could have had a brilliant uniqueness to them, as they did in Guild Wars 1. But instead they just became the clumsy gnomes of GW2, along with the sparkly, colourful technology that accompanies gnomes. Between GW1 and GW2, apparently the asura became gnomes. Look at their animations, I need say no more.

I could go on, but in general I just feel that they failed to deliver on the artistic front, too. As someone who knows a lot about various forms of forest and jungle life, like even the myriad kinds of mushrooms and such you can find in the real world, I was utterly disappointed by the Disneyland copy-pasta going on, instead of having truly exotic and strange looking plants, they went for this one-dimensional, flat thing that was just so creatively bankrupt that I found it genuinely galling and unsettling.

Oh, and what about armour? It was clearly designed for humans, but then they got lazy. The clipping on the sylvari, asura, and charr is atrocious. We were promised armour that would look good on our races, but instead they decided to go down the cheap route, because we're easy money, we're not going to care, right? Except that I do. That there's so much clipping on every armour piece for charr, sylvari, and asura really bothers me. This laziness is endemic of the game. The game in some areas of its aesthetics just feels completely phoned in.

So yes, I think they failed to deliver on aesthetics, too.

And they failed to deliver on fun gameplay. They could have had the gameplay be fast and vicious, versus intelligent mobs (which I have touched on a little), they could have had a lot more character options for decent tactics (which I have also touched on a little), and it could have looked more like their profession preview videos. Instead, they slowed it down so much. Combat feels as slow as molasses, it takes forever to get anywhere, and it just puts a hamper on the enjoyment of the game.

What Guild Wars 2 failed to deliver on in this regard was flow. In games like GW1 and Champions Online, they dealt with this by providing trash mobs along with tough, tactical mobs. So you'd mop up the trash surrounding the more difficult mobs. And the more difficult mobs would then work together to provide you with a worthy fight, so you go into it with this feeling of building challenge. But GW1 mobs are all trash mobs, except with massive bags of HP, so you just sit around hammering at their massive amounts of HP until they die.

They couldn't make it so that the fights are difficult because they require tactics, instead, mobs have massive amounts of HP. And if their numbers are significantly bigger than yours, they can one-shot you. So it stops being about tactics and it just becomes WoW, where you grind for bigger numbers, so you can take on their numbers. You swing your number-sword, they swing theirs. It's just one sack of HP (you) versus another, with your numbers and their determines who loses what HP on what swing.

The feel of the game just... fails at flow. When you couple this with things like the movement tax (the cost of waypoints), and the mind-meltingly slow movement speed of the characters, it's like they wanted to draw out everything. It's like... it feels like it was meant to be a faster pace game, the game that they promised us. Then they went back on that promise too and slowed the game down to a snail's pace. Look at player movement and tell me you don't feel that that's a thing. That reeks of Nexon's involvement.

So it's just a slow, grindy, shallow, hollow game. Far, far closer to WoW than it was to GW1 or CO. That's how it is, for me. Nothing like what it could have been. I'm still in love with the game it could have been - with the aesthetics, the mechanics, the races. It's just the actual game fails to deliver on all these fronts, and I'd sooner forget it because it's painful for me on that level. I know cognitive dissonance will allow some to delude themselves, but eventually it'll set in and they'll realise what I did.

This isn't the game we were promised. It's the ultimate antithesis of the game we were promised.

And that's what upsets me about the mess that is GW2. It's an exercise in trickery, manipulation, Asian-grinder ideals, an dmost importantly... broken promises. I can't think of one, sole promise they managed to keep. Not one. Every promise that mattered to me is something that was either never true in the first place, or something they've backpedaled on in their efforts to create WoW 2.0. And do we honestly think that this WoW 2.0 is going to fare any better than TOR or WAR? I don't. People will get sick of it and leave.

Those who're openly WoW haters (like me) who're sick of the grind will just leave it out of disgust, out of how much it's ended up like WoW. Those who love WoW will realise that GW2 isd not as good at being WoW as WoW is. So they'll just go back to that. At the end of the day the game is going to see a mass exodus, because it went for the fool's gold. It tried to take a slice from the WoW money-pie. And haven't we learned what idiocy that is?

Haven't we learned, ArenaNet?

I was hoping, hoping it would be more like the less cynical modern games that I enjoy, like Champions Online, like Guild Wars 1. I feel that CO and GW1 do way more to deliver on their promises, their Manifesto, than their own game does! In CO I can see the fast paced combat, the flow, the fun, the lack of grind. In GW1 I can see all of this, too. In GW2 I see the exact opposite. If this could have been the evolution of games like CO and GW1, I would have been the happiest person alive. But as it is? WoW 2.0. I didn't sign up for that. I bought into the idea that this game wouldn't be WoW 2.0.

I bought passionately into that idea. You all know this. And I feel so utterly betrayed.

And ultimately that's what upsets me about GW2, it's the greatest exercise I know of in broken promises. I don't think I've ever felt so let down by a company or product before. Nothing has even come close to the base betrayal I feel. I know some people will say 'EVERYTHING IS FINE!!!' and that the game hasn't already lost most of its playerbase, but hey, TOR fans said that too, as did WAR fans. Didn't change a thing, did it?

And I know that some people will want to call me a liar or make personal attacks, just for speaking the truth. I know that there are people who can't wait to do that. I've seen them in other threads when I've brought these things up. And to be honest? That's kind of pathetic. But tell me that for you this doesn't sense. Tell me that most of this post doesn't ring true for you. Tell me that you haven't suffered these nagging feelings, and that recent choices have just brought them to a head.

I'm still in love with the GW2 that could have been, but the GW2 that is? Utter disappointment, feelings of betrayal, and endless broken promises. I can't bring myself to look at it any more. And you'd be surprised at how big of a deal that is. Normally I can overlook a lot, and for a race like the charr? I could overlook a lot more. But this game is just such a heart-rending disappointment that not even the charr can make me login now.

I'm really sad about all this. I'm sad for the GW2 that could have been.

Coulda woulda shoulda, I know. But if there's any hope that the ArenaNet of yore is still out there, and still listening, I need to voice my thoughts. Maybe there's some chance to gather up the scraps of this shambles and pull it together into something resembling the brilliant experience it deserves to be. That's all I want. I want GW2 to be a great game. The sad truth is is that right now it's not. So many broken promises, just as the OP points out. So many.