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Ilthuain

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#2233020 Ascended Weapons.. will you craft one?

Posted ChuyDog08 on 13 September 2013 - 06:11 PM

I made my Ascended Wupwup Claymore last night.  I have to admit a few things:

1. It looks cool
2. It wasn't a grind
3. I will make another Ascended weapon, but that is currently not on top 10 things to do in the game


#2227625 Game dev harassment eroding the industry

Posted Arewn on 20 August 2013 - 02:11 AM

View PostMhenlo, on 20 August 2013 - 12:57 AM, said:

Why? So we can get force fed crap that we don't like and never say a word about it? That's not the way the world works. It is naive to think that game developers should be any different.

As consumers, it is our job to tell companies exactly what we think. They don't have to listen, but that would be rather stupid. There is a reason that the phrase, "the customer is always right" exists. And the companies that understand why that phrase is important tend to do better than those that don't.
The costumer is NOT always right. Quiet the contrary the costumer is very often wrong. That's just a silly marketing slogan companies/stores like to throw around to make people feel like they're being tended to (and yes, many places do actually follow it. Not because it's true, but because it's easier). Like many things, the reason that phrase exists is NOT because it's true, but because its use is effective (in this case effective at improving public relations). It's much easier to simply pander to your customer and give a 'free b' every once in a while then it is to actually deal with a raging customer. This works for places like restaurants where giving a free meal won't kill your profits, but not in the game industry where following every idiots raging criticism will literally ruin your game in the long run. Go through the forums, I'm sure you'll fine suggestion that you think are outright idiotic and would ruin the game. Do you want those customers to be considered "right".
And yes, as a costumer, it is our 'job' to be critical and provide feedback to companies about products or services. But that's not what this thread is talking about, it's talking about abusive, immature, irresponsible, harassing behavior. This isn't about voicing an opinion or having mean things to say about a game. It's about outright harassment and the fact that that harassment has escalated to such a degree that it is chasing talent out of the industry just because internet/gaming subculture is in such a state that a number of people don't know how to express themselves in a civil manner.

View PostZCKS, on 20 August 2013 - 01:47 AM, said:

Your forgot to mention though, some dev's treat the customer base horribly, Ghostcrawler and his hand picked dev leads being chiefly among them. (he may be good at making money for his shareholders but his treatment of said customer base has a horible record)

So verbal abuse of/by developers is hardly a one way street.
Imagine some guy who likes to drive cars telling a professional mechanic that "he's doing it wrong". The mechanic is likely going to turn around and say "no, your wrong, leave me alone and let me finish my damn job".
That's how I view much of what GhostCrawler says. I have seen him say/post outright douchy things which I feel were wrong and that he should not have said, but in most cases it's just a matter of people crying over being told they were wrong instead of pandered to the way they're use to with game company PR.


#2226949 Game dev harassment eroding the industry

Posted Azure Skye on 16 August 2013 - 05:46 PM

Ah, the embodiment of entitlement.


#2204215 [Video] Guild Wars 2, Nine Months Later

Posted Kattar on 20 May 2013 - 10:04 PM

View PostEl Duderino, on 20 May 2013 - 09:58 PM, said:

There isn't one. The closest thing we have is GW2. As such, I will, as a consumer, continue to point out it's problems as I see fit. It is my right to do so. If you don't like it find a forum that scratches your itch?
If you continue to crap on every topic, you'll be the one needing to find another forum. At a certain point you're (not just you, but everyone with the same attitude) just beating a dead horse. And it needs to stop.

No one on this site has more invested in GW2 than the staff here does. You certainly don't see us posting in such a manner.

If you can't find anything else to say other than all the things you hate about GW2, you really do need to find something better to do with your time.


#2109492 Wintersday Workshop

Posted Tzu on 06 December 2012 - 03:50 PM

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NEW DEADLINE:

MONDAY JANUARY 14th!




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Ladies and gentlemen, it's that time again!

This year the Wintersday Workshop starts a little later and lasts a lttle longer than usual, but we hope to see participation remain the same; active, creative and saturated with holiday cheer!

The goal of the Workshop

is creative and artistic growth, regardless of skill level or medium. We encourage every participant to facilitate this growth by actively posting progress of their work and giving and receiving constructive criticism on everything posted in the thread. We also strongly support and encourage each participant to submit their art to the Official Guild Wars Wintersday Contest if applicable - however this is no prerequisite to join the Workshop.

We welcome everyone.


Guild Wars 1 and 2

are both relevant this year. Your entry may be based on either or both, and the prizes are awarded in both games. If you win you can choose to accept both, or just one. Any excess goods will be split evenly amongst the other winners. As usual, donations to the prize pool from any of the two games are welcome!




Posted Image


Sponsored by Posted Image



Wintersday Artist Extraordinaire

Awarded an artist who participated actively in the thread, and was a candidate for the Glittering Tinsel Award and at least 1 other Workshop Award.

Winner: Frost Valkyrie
Frost was active, constructive and considered for several awards. In the end, the judges decided she deserved the top prize for her quality entries and helpful spirit.

# Svanta Claus
Spoiler

# Charr Cub Snuggles!
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Best Progress Awards

Awarded artists who have listened to critique and made a great effort to better his/her entry, regardless of skill level or medium.
  • 1st Place:
Winner: Feathermoore
Feathermoore posted progress and listened to feedback all the way from outline to finished piece. The judges' all loved his idea and he was considered for different awards, but he was the strongest candidate for this one in particular. Beautifully executed!

# Fairytale of Ascalon
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  • 2nd Place:
Winner: Kiya Koreena (Chess Board)
Kiya's frequent updates on the Chess Board project served as both a way for her to improve her craft, and for others to get into the hobby. We've greatly enjoyed following this project!

#Wintersday Chessboard
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  • 3rd Place:
Winner: Frost Valkyrie (Svanta Claus)
Frost frequently posted progress and listened intently to critique and arrived at a very well executed piece of art.

# Svanta Claus
Spoiler
Spoiler

Community Award

Awarded an artist chosen by the people.  Anyone may vote for any artist participating in the Workshop - there is no particular criteria other than do not vote for yourself. Anyone who participates in the voting automatically enters a raffle for bonus prizes!

Anyone who has posted in this thread before the closing date (14th) may vote. Please PM Tzu with your vote before Monday 21st January 2013.

Winner: Kiya Koreena
While it was a very close run, Kiya won the majority of the votes.

#Wintersday Chessboard
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Grentches Award

Awarded an artist who's piece bowed in the favour of Grenth, for a spookier and cheekier Wintersday.

Winner: Whimzic
Cheeky, funny and original, this entry would greatly please Grenth and his minions. The judges thought this was a thorough piece of art saturated with detail and humour.
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Toymaker Tixx's Award

Awarded an artist who's piece would bring a spiky grin to Tixx's face, a piece with a warm, traditional Wintersday atmosphere.

Winner: Kiya Koreena (Chess Set)
Cute, playful and beautifully crafted, the judges decided this entry would be Tixx' favourite. It's clear that a great deal of effort has been put into this piece, and while it's not traditionally Wintersday in the common sense, this is a gift any child would be excited to unwrap come that special season.

#Wintersday Chessboard
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Nicholas' Award

Awarded an artist who's piece is brimming with Guild Wars nostalgia. It may be related to GW1 or GW2, or maybe even both, as long as it inspires fond memories of past events, places or people in the Guild Wars universe.

Winner: CKABEH 3PEBOB
The old gods celebrating Wintersday GW1 style was a festive blast from the past! This was a detailed and expertly painted artwork which was immediately nostalgic. The portrait of Colin from GW2's manifesto also ties it to the future of the GW universe.

#Happy Wintersday to all!
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Glittering Tinsel Award

Awarded an individual who provided quality constructive criticism to the Workshop artists, and generally kept their spirits lifted and inspired throughout. This individual was not necessarily an artist himself/herself, but the most helpful poster ITT.

Winner: Tommy
Helpful and constructive, Tommy offered quality advice to those who requested it, even if he couldn't find time to make new entry himself.

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More prizes to come!


Posted Image



New this Wintersday we are running a Screenshot competition parallel with the Workshop! Take a Wintersday themed Screenshot and post it in the thread to participate. You may only submit 1 screenshot to the competition and it can be cropped but not otherwise touched up in an image editing program. This means no changes to colours, contrast, brightness or otherwise.

Winner: Hailfall
Hailfall's originality and humour won the judges over this year. The screenshot had a clear narrative, solid composition and clear resolution.
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Screenshots will be judged based on quality of composition, concept, subject(s), originality and how closely related the screenshot is to the Wintersday theme.

NB! Remove UI with crtl+shift+h and add -bmp to the end of the command line for the GW2 client to get higher quality screenshots.

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Workshop Donations


As usual we appreciate any and all donations to the Workshop prize pool! We're especially looking for GW2 prizes at present, and if you wish to donate something please PM me and we will sort it out.


We can currently thank Arenanet for most of the prizes, as well as Guild Wars 2 Guru and Aero!


Posted Image
  • Fill out the form below.
  • Set up a progress gallery (optional)
  • Start working and posting progress!

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Idea for Entry:
Art form:
Progress Gallery Link:


Details
  • A progress gallery is a place where you host progress as pictures, text or both. Deviantart, Photobucket, Wordpress and the like are good hosts. This is optional, but highly encouraged! You don't have to provide a gallery right away, you can post it whenever you're ready.
  • The precise deadline for the Workshop is Jan 6th, Noon PST.
  • Entries must be your original work, and not posted or entered into a previous Workshop or official Wintersday contest.
  • You may submit up to 2 entries, and enter the Screenshot competition in addition to these.
  • You may only win 1 prize.
  • Winners are announced 1-2 weeks after the Workshop deadline.
Judges


If you wish to judge, please PM me. Anyone is welcome to judge, regardless of artistic background. You just need to be available around Jan 6th - Jan 13th and able to give a well-reasoned explanation for your nominations. You may judge and participate in the Workshop, simply name the Awards you wish to judge entries for and you will be eligible for all Awards other than the one(s) you judge. You may be anonymous. Judges so far:

Tzu - all entries
Aero - all entries
Jenn - all entries
Verbal Processing - all entries except literary works
Anonymous - all entries
Anonymous - all entries except literary works




Posted Image



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  • Konig Des Todes: Katherine Zoltin's Wintersday struggle [Literature & Cover Art] Progress: forthcoming



Steam Group:

http://steamcommunit...ups/Wintersday/



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


:D This post is a work in progress! :D


Special thanks to Kiya Koreena for the GW2 font!




#2098057 Anet on why there is vertical progression

Posted Maarius on 27 November 2012 - 01:12 PM

some of you may have the same question as a user lately:

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How is slowly introducing more and more elements of CEVP respecting the player? I made an informed decision about this game based on the number of hours you told me I would need to play it per month to remain at the absolute top of the game - zero, and that the top would be achievable by anyone, only cosmetic stuff needed significant time investment.
What happened to that? We liked that.

Now you plan to release more power in tiny increments, first ascended, then infused, then super infused, then something else, and on it goes. I'll need to keep playing or else eventually I'll fall significantly behind my guildies, WvW opponents and friends. By the time all the ascended gear is out, you'll increase the level cap and the CEVP starts anew!

And why on earth do you want people to play for so long anyway? Why 30 levels of fractals? Why 250 mats? It's not like we're paying a sub fee here, I don't understand why you want us farming mats for so long!

this is the official response from Mike OBrien:

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I loved your post and was about to answer it before you edited it. I'll continue still.
How is introducing VP respecting the player? Because it's fun to be challenged and rewarded. Because it's fun to have the character you play grow and evolve over time. Because ArenaNet (sort of) held a hard line against all VP with GW1 -- no VP ever, year after year -- and it wasn't that fun. It was stagnant.

We use purely cosmetic rewards for things that would be outside the reach of typical players. I have an oft-quoted line about that: "If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game."

Since you're describing yourself as an average player and asking about average players, it shouldn't be out-of-bounds for us to give you something new in the game that's more meaningful to your character than a purely cosmetic change.

"The number of hours you told me I would need to play it per month to remain at the absolute top of the game - zero."

--> No. No one said that. It would be pointless to design a game for those who want to play it zero hours per month.
But rephrase, perhaps to something like this: I want to play a reasonable number of hours per month and still be competitive, not falling behind a power curve that's only accessible to those with the most time. Then that is more along the lines of what we said, and we intend to stick by it.

"I need to keep playing or else eventually I'll fall significantly behind ..." Why on earth do you want people to play for so long?

Well, obviously there are many reasons why it's good for any online world for people to actually play it. But the design motivation here is simple. --> We're intending to build content that's most fun for people who are playing the game, not that's most fun for people who are not playing the game. If you want to take a break for a year, that's fine, but we're not going to freeze the game for you while you're gone. I'm sure we'll make it reasonable for you to catch back up when you return. After all, it's clearly in our best interest to do so.

Why 30 levels of fractals? Because 30+ levels of fractals is good for players who enjoy fractals, and meaningless for players who don't play fractals.

"Why 250 mats? "

That's really core here. It's fine to say that non-cosmetic VP isn't supposed to be grindy or outside the reach of normal players, but then we price some new items at 250 ectos with no other ways to get them, and it's hard to interpret it as other than that. That's a mistake. The design team has committed to fixing that.

~ MO


This post really makes sense for me. It's also in line with the "there is no endgame" quote which says that gameplay doesn't switch from one system to another (like the sudden raid appearance at max. level in other games) but stays the same. You'll do at 80 what you did from level 1-79. This is what they told us from the beginning.

hence there is no change in design decision. From 1 to 79 my character slowly gets stronger without the mandatory grind in order to get to content I couldn't get otherwise.

There is grind in the game, yes:
  • optional grind in order to get better looking gear
  • grind for better gear (Ascended gear) which was clearly stated as mistake -> they are working for balancing this



#2095195 [Results] Guild Wars 2 Research

Posted Gazzy on 25 November 2012 - 05:22 AM

Hey everyone!

You may remember the research from these threads:
http://www.guildwars...er-gather-here/
http://www.guildwars...arch-revisited/

Well I'm back with results! This initial study was only focusing on player personality and character personality, so that's what the numbers are about. Chi-squared and 2-tailed t-tests were used to get these numbers. Here you go!

Final Sample Size: 898 [retained participants who specified their gender and could remember the initial personality they picked.]



The sample surveyed scored slightly differently than the average population on the TIPI measurements. Average population compared to the current sample in the following ways, respectively: Openness 5.38 vs. 5.31; Conscientiousness 5.40 vs. 4.87; Extroversion 4.44 vs. 3.35; Agreeableness 5.23 vs. 4.61; Emotional Stability 4.83 vs. 5.10.

Big Five & Initial Personality
·    Players who start ferocious characters have higher normalized extroversion scores than players who do not start ferocious characters on average: .19 versus -.04, t(167)= 2.8, p<.01.
·    Players who start ferocious characters have lower normalized agreeableness scores than players who do not start ferocious characters on average: -.19 versus .04, t(167)= 3.16, p<.005.
·    Players who start dignified characters have lower normalized openness to new experiences scores than players who do not start dignified characters on average: -.09 versus .06, t(384)= 2.15, p<.05.
·    Players who start dignified characters have lower normalized extroversion scores than players who do not start dignified characters on average: -.1 versus .07, t(384)= 2.75, p<.01.
·    Players who start dignified characters have higher normalized emotional stability scores than players who do not start dignified characters on average: .08 versus -.06, t(384)= 2.22, p<.05.
·    Players who start charming characters have higher normalized agreeableness scores than players who do not start charming characters on average: .11 versus -.07, t(344)= 2.35, p<.05.
·    Players who start charming characters have lower normalized emotional stability scores than players who do not start charming characters on average: -.11 versus .07, t(344)= 2.55, p<.01.

Gender Differences & Initial Personality
·    Male players who start ferocious characters have higher normalized extroversion scores than male players who do not start ferocious characters on average: 0.19 versus -.05, t(150)= 2.63, p<.01.
·    Male players who start ferocious characters have lower normalized agreeableness scores than male players who do not start ferocious characters on average: -.14 versus .03, t(150)= 2.01, p<.05.
·    Male players who start dignified characters have lower normalized openness to new experiences scores than male players who do not start dignified characters on average: -.09 versus .06, t(325)= 2.07, p<.05.
·    Male players who start dignified characters have lower normalized extroversion scores than male players who do not start dignified characters on average: -.09 versus .07, t(325)= 2.07, p<.05.
·    Male players who start charming characters have lower normalized emotional stability scores than male players who do not start charming characters on average: -.11 versus .06, t(264)= 2.16, p<.05.
·    Female players who start dignified characters have lower normalized extroversion scores than female players who do not start dignified characters on average: -.22 versus .13, t(58)= 2.11, p<.05.

Gender Preferences & Initial Personality
·    20% of male players start a ferocious character, 11% of female players start a ferocious character. 19% of the sample is ferocious.
·    Male players are more likely than female players to start a ferocious character, 20% versus 11%, c2(898) = 6.15, p<.01.
·    No significant gender differences were found between male and female players creating dignified characters.
·    36% of male players start a charming character, 51% of female players start a charming character. 38% of the sample started charming avatars.
·    Female players are more likely than male players to start charming character, 51% versus 36%, c2(898) = 8.13, p<.001.

Gender Avatar Extension
·    38% of male players consider their avatar an extension of themselves, 42% of female players consider their avatar an extension of themselves. 39% of the sample considered their avatar an extension of themselves.

o   There is no difference between male and female players considering their avatar an extension of themselves.


Avatar as an Extension vs. not Extension & Personality
·    Players who consider their avatar an extension of themselves and started ferocious characters have lower normalized agreeableness scores than players who do not consider their avatar an extension of themselves on average: -.28 versus .13, t(52)=2.5, p<.05.
·    Players who consider their avatar an extension of themselves and started charming characters have higher normalized agreeableness scores than players who do not consider their avatar an extension of themselves on average: .29 versus -.16, t(120)=4.1, p<.001.

Extremized Personalities
·    59% of players played an extremized version of one of the three basic personality types (ferocious = barbaric; dignified = noble, captivating = charismatic) at the time of data collection.
·    The personality selected at creation for ferocious, dignified, and charming characters significantly predicted the likelihood that a character would have this basic personality as a part of their personality later in gameplay.
·    88% of players who created a ferocious character continued to play a ferocious character at the time of data collection.

o   Of this 88%, 51% were extremized versions of the ferocious personality (barbaric).

·    78% of players who created a dignified character continued to play a dignified character at the time of data collection.

o   Of this 78%, 59% were extremized versions of the dignified personality (noble).

·    91% of players who created a charming character continued to play a charming character at the time of data collection.

o   Of this 91%, 61% were extremized versions of the charming personality (captivating).


Extremized Personality vs. Mild Personality
·    Players who play extremely ferocious (barbaric) characters (>75% ferocity) have lower have lower normalized agreeableness scores than players who play moderately ferocious characters: -.17 versus .30, t(52)= 2.75, p<.01.

Extremized Personality vs. Extremized Personality
·    Players who play extremely ferocious (barbaric) characters (>75% ferocity) have lower normalized agreeableness scores than players who play extremized dignified (noble) or extremized charming (captivating) characters: -.29 versus .07, t(97)= 3.61, p<.001.
·    Players who play extremely charming (captivating) characters (>75% charm) have higher normalized agreeableness scores than players who play extremized dignified (noble) or extremized ferocious (barbaric) characters: .18 versus -0.13, t(222)= 3.38, p<.001.

Avatar an Extension of Self at Creation and Now
·    Players who consider their avatar an extension of themselves and started ferocious characters have lower normalized agreeableness scores than players who consider their avatar an extension of themselves but do not create ferocious characters: -.56 versus .10, t(52)=5.0, p<.001.
·    Players who consider their avatar an extension of themselves and currently play ferocious characters have lower normalized agreeableness scores than players who consider their avatar an extension of themselves but do not currently play a ferocious character on average: -.48 versus .10, t(60)=4.6, p<.001.
·    Players who consider their avatar an extension of themselves and created dignified characters have lower normalized extroversion scores than players who consider their avatar an extension of themselves but did not create a dignified character on average: -.12 versus .12, t(171)=2.3, p<.05.
·    Players who consider their avatar an extension of themselves and started charming characters have higher normalized agreeableness scores than players who consider their avatar an extension of themselves but do not create charming characters: .29 versus -.16, t(120)=4.02, p<.001.
·    Players who consider their avatar an extension of themselves and currently play charming characters have higher normalized agreeableness scores than players who consider their avatar an extension of themselves but do not currently play a charming character on average: .3 versus -.18, t(131)=4.48, p<.001.

Avatar Not an Extension of Self at Creation and Now
·    Players who do not consider their avatar an extension of themselves and started dignified characters have higher normalized emotional stability scores than players who do not consider their avatar an extension of themselves and do not create dignified characters: .13 versus -.08, t(212)=2.36; p<.05.
·    Players who do not consider their avatar an extension of themselves and started charming characters have lower normalized emotional stability scores than players who do not consider their avatar an extension of themselves and do not create charming characters: -.17 versus .11, t(223)=3.22; p<.01.
·    Players who do not consider their avatar an extension of themselves and are currently playing charming characters have lower normalized emotional stability scores than players who do not consider their avatar an extension of themselves and do not currently play charming characters: -.13 versus .09, t(232)=2.54; p<.05.


#2090802 Hello Grind, fancy meeting you here...

Posted Shadowrose on 21 November 2012 - 11:30 AM

View PostDahk, on 21 November 2012 - 05:19 AM, said:

So, a Vial of Condensed Mists Essence dropped for me today.  My first thought was "Awesome! I can make an ascended item!"

...until I looked closer at the mat cost.  Potent bloods are almost 25 silver each and I need 250 of them.  And that's before even counting the ectos.

Now, to give you some background, I don't get a ton of playtime.  Between my family and my job, I don't get to put in nearly as many hours as I was able to do back in my college years, but that's why I came to GW2.  I played GW1 back in the day and I was really looking forward to a game where I can jump in and be judged by how well I played, not how long I played.

After hearing ArenaNet's manifesto on the game, I thought that's what I would find.

And it was.

Until this latest patch.  

I know to a lot of other people, this mat cost is nothing, but it's sad that it feels like I can't play MMOs and still be competitive anymore.
Competitive?

You were never competitive bro.

I'm still in exotics, I don't have a legendary, but you know what? I don't care. Because I don't need those.


#2077107 I absolutely do not like this..Gear grind in GW

Posted Kratimas on 13 November 2012 - 05:24 PM

And you created another thread because the other 7 about this very topic weren't good enough for you?


#2076991 Exotic armor sets soon to be worthless?

Posted Vexies on 13 November 2012 - 04:50 PM

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Anet just screwed over anyone that worked on getting exotics for there character because they were told there would not be gear grind….with horizontal gear progression. Its all about the cosmetics etc....

LIES.

Really? Hmm I somehow fail to see how two slots negate all exotics.. but then I tend to be rational.  If you mean that at some point, several content patches from now and more likely well into the middle of next year there will be a full set of this new gear released then sure.. but no your still over reacting lol


#2076998 Exotic armor sets soon to be worthless?

Posted Echou on 13 November 2012 - 04:52 PM

I love it how people think Exotics become useless when Ascended is released. I mean, you can do lv80 stuff with Masterwork gear. :D


#2057310 You can log out anytime, including during combat. It restores you fully and r...

Posted Naoroji on 02 November 2012 - 06:28 AM

I'm not sure this is in fact an oversight. I also like how you keep saying that it needs to be 'fixed'. I, for one, wouldn't even want to play a game that forces me to wait on a logout timer...


#2049761 Limited Skills?

Posted Princess Fatora on 29 October 2012 - 06:34 AM

Weird thing is, I actually use more skills and abilities than I did in GW1. Simply because the abilities here are more useful and have far less useless bloat.

In GW1, it was meta build or bust. Quite different here. This seems to be quite a better system indeed. Most GW1 skills were just weaker versions of better skills that did pretty much the same thing.


#2041021 When did Guild Wars players turn in to such whiners?

Posted ChuyDog08 on 24 October 2012 - 11:10 PM

I feel this forum has turned into a place for players to come complain.  Most seem to complaint about things they wish were “given” to them.  They view themselves as a victim of some major conspiracy.  What happened to the days of using the forum constructively to help others and general game design?  I find it hard to use the general discussion sections due to the large number topics dedicated to moaning about one microscopic part of the game.  These topics keep getting shoved to the top of the list due to users trolling each other. This must stop.

I petition that we start a new section of the forum call “Complaint Corner” or “Cry Baby Corner”.  This is where all non-constructive trolling topics can be started or moved.  Anyone agree?


#2040704 ArenaNet the next Blizzard?

Posted Runkleford on 24 October 2012 - 08:40 PM

The forums need a serious housecleaning because there are nothing but hyperbolic whine threads now. There's no real discussion because the topics themselves are provoking but not in the thought provoking kind of way. All we'll see are back and forth arguments leading to nowhere.