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Kymeric

Member Since 09 Aug 2010
Offline Last Active Dec 17 2014 04:13 PM

#2344581 Introducing the New Daily Achievement System

Posted El Duderino on 16 December 2014 - 09:47 PM

View PostBaron von Scrufflebutt, on 16 December 2014 - 07:56 PM, said:

GW2's requirements such as  "salvage items", "apply conditions", "dodge", "craft items", "kill non hostile creatures",

Colin Johanson: "You'll get quest text that tells you 'I'm being attacked by these horrible things,' and it's not actually happening. In the game world, these horrible centaurs are standing around in a field, and you get a quest step that says 'Go kill ten centaurs.' We don't think that's OK. You see what's happening. You see centaurs running to the trading post, knocking the walls down, burning and killing the merchants."


#2344563 Introducing the New Daily Achievement System

Posted El Duderino on 16 December 2014 - 05:45 PM

View PostSatenia, on 16 December 2014 - 03:02 PM, said:

What evidence do you have of the contrary? Such speculation is pointless. If you want to believe an official statement, they said that the NPE was done based on euro/us feedback and not just cause of the china launch. Why put so much effort into that if not to accommodate new players?

Personally I think that for us veteran players it's easy to forget that you can put a lot of hours (and money) into the game just casually playing through the campaign and the zones. A MMO today can attract a far broader crowd then a few years ago.

The fact that they have yet to have announced hitting 5M Western sales. Seems like it would be an important milestone that would be announced. The fact that revenue is stagnant. I mean, there certainly is more pointing to the fact that they aren't attracting new players rather than the opposite. But, that was never my point. You were the one that was using ANet attracting new players as a point - therefore,  it is on you to prove that point or concede that you can't use it as support for your argument.

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This would only be relevant if the upcoming daily achievement change was replacing additional content. However, it is not. The actual content is the recycled wintersday from last year (and the one before) and by all means you can complain about that as much as you want, but it is entirely unrelated to the daily achievement system change.

I still don't think you understand my point. Giving people incentives just to LOG IN to a game is a completely desperate attempt at, well, getting people to log into a game. If the game was good enough, you wouldn't have to dangle a carrot in front of the customer simply to get them to engage with it, regardless of actually needing to play the game - which is the whole point of a game's existence.

I feel this really may be going over your head, because you think I am complaining. I'm not. I don't really care. I just think it is an incredibly sad state of affairs for GW2 if they have to give people rewards simply to log in. In fact, you can add this back to my first point as another reason why it seems the game isn't gaining new players and is stagnant.


#2344536 Introducing the New Daily Achievement System

Posted El Duderino on 16 December 2014 - 01:20 PM

View PostSatenia, on 16 December 2014 - 12:33 PM, said:

Actually, I said they do well to stick to the spenders as well as new players which can result in the former. Obviously, just sticking to what you have won't work long-term, that was never my point. However, not chasing after the ever-complaining one-time purchasers clearly was. To differentiate between profitable as well as unprofitable customers is entirely legitimate.

How are they gaining new players if they aren't doing anything different? What evidence do you have that they are actually gaining new players enough to make up for attrition of old players?


View PostSatenia, on 16 December 2014 - 12:33 PM, said:

I'm not even sure why you think they are doing a bad job based on these numbers. An average is to be considered with care in a f2p environment due to the previously mentioned gap between those who spend a lot and those who don't spend anything (or close to) at all. LoL for example is very far down the list, simply because it has so many players, so the average value gets butchered. I do however believe it would be a mistake to claim that the game is doing bad.

You were the one that brought up the fact that ANet only makes $3.88 a player and that is the reason why they can't/won't make better content. Seems to me that a company that can't innovate because they aren't making enough money... isn't doing that well. Also, ANet has not only said that they will never make an expansion, they also haven't done so in 2 years. Thinking that they will at some point is just wishful and naive thinking.

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A handful of scenarios spring to my mind:

I think you missed the point of my post completely. I'll try and make it more clear. A Skinner Box != a game. Hence, making your game more like a Skinner Box (E.g. giving people rewards for simply logging in and not actually playing the game) is rather boring, and pointless, game design. In fact, it can't even really be called game design, because it has nothing to do with actually playing or implementing anything to do with a game.

But, I suppose that not everyone expects much out of MMO's and GW2; whereas there are some of us that actually expect game designers to make objectively good game design choices. Such is life.


#2344524 Introducing the New Daily Achievement System

Posted El Duderino on 16 December 2014 - 04:14 AM

Doesn't it just seem so desperate to have to give people rewards simply for deciding to turn on the game? I mean, do people have no other reason to turn on the game than to simply get a reward? And, then what? Is that all they care to actually do and then they log off? The whole thing seems derpy to me as if it is some last ditch effort to try and push people to play the game.

Seems to me if people like the game, they don't need to be incentivized just to log in.


#2344530 Introducing the New Daily Achievement System

Posted raspberry jam on 16 December 2014 - 09:32 AM

View PostNerfHerder, on 16 December 2014 - 12:33 AM, said:

When you reduce the argument to "login = win game", it seems derpy. However, some players have busy lives. Ive been in the middle of my dailies and been called in to work, family stuff, etc. Now you get a reward, thats not game breaking, if you dont get time to play or have to leave in a hurry. At least we get a QoL improvement than no update at all, right?
I don't know where to begin. But I'll try to skip the part about how you literally get a reward for a repeating, repetitive quest in a game that was touted as not being repetitive and grindy (I failed, I guess), and go right on to the part where it is apparently QoL to get rewarded for not playing the game. I mean what did you pay for anyway? Not playing the game is sort of the default state that you had before even buying it! So what is being rewarded here exactly? Doing family stuff instead of playing the game? But wait... :eek: It is, isn't it?? Is this finally the Extended Experience update we've been waiting for?!?!? Of course!!!! Thank you Arenanet for rewarding us in every part of our lives!!! :angel:

View PostEl Duderino, on 16 December 2014 - 04:14 AM, said:

Seems to me if people like the game, they don't need to be incentivized just to log in.
Not be incentivized? What is this I see? Heresy?

All hail S:t B.F. :angel:


#2344211 Introducing the New Daily Achievement System

Posted El Duderino on 10 December 2014 - 09:49 PM

View PostSatenia, on 10 December 2014 - 08:20 PM, said:

That the developers do not feel like working through that time to produce even further content for a bunch of complaining free-loaders who won't spend an extra dollar on the game anyway?

Not for nothing, but that is Anet's business model. Like it or not, they decided to not have subs and opt to go with the Living Story for content rather than adding new zones or an expansion. It hardly seems fair to call people a bunch of "complaining free-loaders" when it isn't the consumer that is making the decisions on how the game is monetized and developed.


#2344202 Introducing the New Daily Achievement System

Posted El Duderino on 10 December 2014 - 07:46 PM

View PostBaron von Scrufflebutt, on 10 December 2014 - 07:05 PM, said:

That's part of the problem: previously new content was the incentive to log in, now we are looking at a month without content and "Log in to get the reward! JUST LOG IN!" is the replacement for it.
Give us new content, give us something we'll enjoy logging in for. Instead, we get a reward for logging in!?

Not just that, but I also have to wonder what kind of a player this will appeal to? If they are trying to appeal to the people that require a reward for simply logging in, what kind of future content can we expect? Will these players even want content that requires them to overcome challenges to gain the reward?

I think this is the underlying problem with the MMO genre, which is a byproduct of the themepark style MMO. Fun has largely stopped being the main influencer in MMOs and has been replaced by rewards. This is seen over and over again with the discussions we have about MMOs, their development and how developers use rewards to drive log ins and interactions.

I suppose that it really boils down to just another dopamine injections from the brain. Whether it is rewards, winning a PvP battle, completing a story: it is all just dopamine hits to the brain that make people coming back for more like Pavlov's dogs. Which makes me wonder if there is something that separates these things as being more important or better than the other in any objective way. Perhaps, it is the way in which you achieve the dopamine bump that should matter. So, for simple daily rewards, you basically are forced to log in and grind a bit, with a PvP match - you actually have to deftly find a way to win said match. If that is the case - I go back to my original statement then - sounds like a bore.

Sorry for the stream-of-consciousness rant...


#2344199 Introducing the New Daily Achievement System

Posted Baron von Scrufflebutt on 10 December 2014 - 07:05 PM

View Postdavadude, on 10 December 2014 - 06:36 PM, said:

I feel its also something for us to check out, considering we'll be stuck with Wintersday for 3+ weeks until the next update.

That's part of the problem: previously new content was the incentive to log in, now we are looking at a month without content and "Log in to get the reward! JUST LOG IN!" is the replacement for it.
Give us new content, give us something we'll enjoy logging in for. Instead, we get a reward for logging in!?

Not just that, but I also have to wonder what kind of a player this will appeal to? If they are trying to appeal to the people that require a reward for simply logging in, what kind of future content can we expect? Will these players even want content that requires them to overcome challenges to gain the reward?


#2344196 Introducing the New Daily Achievement System

Posted El Duderino on 10 December 2014 - 06:53 PM

View PostSoki, on 10 December 2014 - 06:41 PM, said:

Daily Chores redux.
Is this what ANet has? Is the Dev team really that small now?
What a sad sequal to GW.

I just don't understand the excitement of what amounts to chores in a game. Games are supposed to be fun. Chores... aren't... fun...


#2344193 Introducing the New Daily Achievement System

Posted Soki on 10 December 2014 - 06:41 PM

Daily Chores redux.
Is this what ANet has? Is the Dev team really that small now?
What a sad sequal to GW.


#2344187 Introducing the New Daily Achievement System

Posted Baron von Scrufflebutt on 10 December 2014 - 06:24 PM

I guess the LS is not pulling in the amount of people they would like to see, so they need to resort to things like rewards for simply logging in?


#2342219 Is GW2 dead now or is it just the forums?

Posted draxynnic on 07 November 2014 - 11:03 AM

View PostEl Duderino, on 05 November 2014 - 07:08 PM, said:

Many others, including myself, feel that (coming from business backgrounds) specializing in a few select things can often lead to higher retention rates and more profitability.
You don't need to have a business background to recognise that in a saturated market where one or two players have already established market dominance, it's often better to target consumers that are dissatisfied with the existing offerings rather than aiming for the same player base as the dominant player. I've been saying it for years.


#2342228 Is GW2 dead now or is it just the forums?

Posted El Duderino on 07 November 2014 - 03:39 PM

View Postdraxynnic, on 07 November 2014 - 11:03 AM, said:

You don't need to have a business background to recognise that in a saturated market where one or two players have already established market dominance, it's often better to target consumers that are dissatisfied with the existing offerings rather than aiming for the same player base as the dominant player. I've been saying it for years.

I agree with you! But, alas, there are many people that feel quite the opposite.


#2342036 Echos of the Past Patch Notes

Posted Miragee on 04 November 2014 - 07:37 PM

View Postdavadude, on 04 November 2014 - 06:29 PM, said:

Depends how you see them.

They've taken the tier system from Dry Top, and added WvW like forts to the new zone.  Holding all seven forts, and upgrading them to tier five unlocks elite swarms, which are never ending swarms of legendary bosses.  It's a challenge, a blast, and very difficult.  I love it!

Sounds good. I will probably log on during the upcoming days and see it for myself.

View PostKymeric, on 04 November 2014 - 06:30 PM, said:

I remember when they first teased that Orr was going to be like that.  In the initial hints, it sounded something like WvW against waves of NPCs, with players slowly taking objectives across the zone.

Yeah I remember how excited I was. And I have to keep quiet about all that to my friend because he didn't want to get spoiled. We agreed that we would talk about it when he had seen it ingame. Well, when we arrived in Orr.... I told him what they said... It was awkward.


#2342087 Is GW2 dead now or is it just the forums?

Posted Phenn on 05 November 2014 - 03:50 PM

View PostKymeric, on 04 November 2014 - 06:21 PM, said:

What is this referencing?  I tried googling, but didn't find anything.

This Reddit post here.