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BrazilTheHueMember Since 10 Nov 2012
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Posted Nikephoros on 13 February 2014 - 02:40 PM
Posted Obal on 27 December 2013 - 10:30 PM
The difference between the tests was the builds and gear I used which I showed at the end and noted when they changed. The only difference was that I didn't have another strength booster for the cleric ones which I noted on the video description though the zerk back piece I had would add some of that power back. Other than that I had the same consumables and buffs for everything and made sure I had adequate might and vuln for the WWs for the clerics gear tests. I did them twice and took the higher one which was about the same as the lower. I lacked the strength booster since I noticed I only hit 9x with WW when I did it originally so I took the effort to do it again so it was in line with the others. If anything I put more effort into the clerics testing then I did with the rest other than the 56k WW I did.
Posted Obal on 27 December 2013 - 09:06 PM
Majority of the community does that. Only a very small fraction of the community swears full dps or else your bad is the only way to go. Everyone just ignores the rude ego's like they don't exist, and does what they want anyway. Trust your judgement and eyes. Usually if it looks fail and it doesn't work for you. Most likely either you don't know how to use it. Or it is actually not worth using. But I suggest not just listening to any one source. Try everything and feel things out. Then come to a decision based off of yourself and game play. Like I said if you don't feel or identify with a build. You will just quit on the class or even the game.
We respect Guang and his theorcrafting using logic and math but this guide was made in April without updates and there has been changes since then with all the skill/trait changes and the strategies people use. Nike referenced my guide since this one is a bit out of date and mine is more up to date. He was trying to be helpful to someone that asked for help. I'm not sure why you insist on calling people try hards, elitists, and egotistical all the time. It really adds no value and you've proven time after time to not be above any of the things you call people.
Posted BreadBuddy on 19 December 2013 - 03:26 AM
Posted Kattar on 26 December 2013 - 08:44 PM
Your thread is now locked.
Posted Epixors on 26 December 2013 - 03:35 PM
Its a better support, with unparalled uptime of stability, protection, healing, reflection, condition removal and blind (except for offhand pistol thiefs ofc)
Its. Its not the best damagebuild, i never said it was.
The more damage the players in the team has the faster you will clear things, its common sense. You can use zerk warrior,thief, ele ,mesmer, ranger and in a perfect world clear everything record fast. You dont need a guardian even, i have done 49 with grawl in a team without guard on my mesmer.
You take a guardian to make things smoother. You dont need a thief for harpy or dredge either, but its smoother. You didnt need a mesmer for the mimic trick or portal either, but it made things smoother. Clearing things faster is not everything that matters. Having a much smoother 5min longer run is a trade many players would do.
If i wanted to use another build i would. Its not like its a secret build.
This build is meant to maximize support without gimping your damage too much.
Im not even gonna answer the last question.
And why is it so hard to make a video of those things i asked for? Or at least find one on internet, since its soo easy? Nolifer guilds on Ts excluded.
Even if you don't want to answer the last question atleast clearly answer the 2nd and 3rd please. You aren't using the hammer as your main weapon nor using Writ of Persistence so I really doubt the "unparalleled uptime of protection".
The reason it'd be hard to find a video of an organized group (NOTE: They do have a life, that's just some false assumption you make) using voice communication is because they are the groups uploading the videos to show other people how it should be done. Obal has a good collection of videos here: http://www.guildwars...st-shown-at-48/
A guardian can make things smooth by bringing reflects, condition removal and damage. We bring enough condition removal and reflects by going 20 into Virtues leaving us to spend the rest on DPS. To do this with a Hammer we go 15 into Zeal to get a damage modifier, power and maintained vulnerability through the symbol auto-attack. We need 15 in Radiance to spam VoJ and if there's another source of viable condition removal we can drop 10 in Virtues to go 25 into this to get another damage modifier.
20 in Honor is required for the Hammer as it grants 100% protection up-time on the auto-attack and increases the damage output. 10 in Honor is mandatory for the Consecration cooldown/duration as it's one of the main reasons to bring a Guardian. Going 20 into it depends on the group composition but I pretty much always do it as it feels comfortable for me.
With 15/15/0/20/20 you have maximized the necessary support that a Guardian needs to bring while maintaining good damage. With 15/25/0/20/10 the support is somewhat lower (still strong condition removal with Purging Flames though) and damage is increased.
You didn't maximize support while not trying to gimp your damage too much, you went overkill on support because of the incapability of your team/yourself and then try to promote that as a better build to something much more efficient. Your gear and rune choices are complete crap and you'd perform much better in full zerker and if you're not capable of that in knights/zerker than you would in celestial gear. Boon duration is not necessary as protection can be kept up 100% of the time and stability is something that has to be timed in general and is already quite long without boon duration. Regen is a pretty weak boon and you shouldn't even be thinking about healing your team mates through anything other than VoR and blasting water fields.
There is still absolutely no reason why this build would be better and it really isn't something you should be suggesting to other players as they will perform below their capabilities with it and slow down the group they play with, effectively wasting someone's time.
Posted Epixors on 26 December 2013 - 01:07 PM
But why even use two guardians then? because you need the support correct? better use 1 guardian and other classes then in my opinion.
And i would like to see a video of you in a full zerk/dpsbuild/scholar team meleeing every fractal 50 with only 1 guard in a 15/15/0/20/20 build. You can know the players, but no a set group, and no TS.
And as i have said, i am aware of other builds on this site.
And epixors handbook is worth nothing since he doesnt have actual playing experience.
Well obviously you have no idea on how to work things out on a spreadsheet. Even if you'd give me the information on exactly what builds they were running and what circumstances they were in compared to your group I wouldn't calculate it because then you'd just write it of as "he doesn't have any playing experiences".
I have ~520 hours on my Guardian, it's not an immense number I am aware of that but I also have other things to do in life than play Guild Wars 2, it just happens to be something I enjoy so I like to help out other Guardians. I wouldn't say I have no playing experience at all.
I never said I use two Guardians in my team, it's something that you mentioned so I just replied to that. Diffent classes provide different support in a variety of ways. Mesmers offer mobility and reflects, Guardians offer reflects and condition removal, Warriors offer banners, Rangers offer Frost Spirit & Spotter, etc etc etc.
Different classes provide support in different ways both offensive and defensive. Guardians can provide reflects (offensive and defensive) and condition removal (defensive) very efficiently without having to drop too much personal DPS.
Also, did you even read my guide on Guardians and understand it? I very much so doubt you did. I won't make a video on that level of Fractals because I don't play that high (also never said I did btw) nor do I really feel the need to proof anything to you that is general information.
While you try to hopelessly defend this build again valid arguments from different people, please take the time to answer my questions which shouldn't really be that hard to answer at all if you're so convinced of your build. Note that "evidence" is a key part of a discussion, playtime is not.
Posted Epixors on 26 December 2013 - 12:43 PM
There is also a difference when playing solo guard or have two. When you have two you have twice as much reflect aegis etc, there is no need ise nothing but full dps then. But as solo guard all responsibility is on you, and not shared.
Mind actually answering the questions I asked in a decent format instead of making assumptions based on absolutely nothing? The difference with having one or two guardians is that one guardian can drop condition removal usually and doesn't have to use the Hammer spec and can go for a more damage-oriented build.
So please, answer the questions so this won't end up locked like the Scion Storm topic and so this can be a fruitful discussion.
Posted Nikephoros on 26 December 2013 - 11:29 AM
These kinds of statements are simply troll baiting. Better you spend time learning the fractals until you're comfortable in melee before you start lecturing people on what is and isn't good, since you are somewhat embarrassing yourself.
Posted Obal on 26 December 2013 - 10:59 AM
And to the above poster, i think you are missing the point, we were talking about standing still and autoattaking with hammer vs not. Its not like i never use hammer quite the opposite, but i dont build most of my support around its autoattack.
Having more than 20 points in honor is not worthwhile. You should have only 1 shout on your bar for most of the content so pure of voice is not worthwhile in fractals. Conditions aren't really a problem to begin with for the most part and you have absolute resolution and purging flames which is plenty. Two handed mastery is only worthwhile in underwater in which you don't have use for Writ and can swap. Empowering might is underwhelming and battle presence won't be the difference of being able to take 2-3 shots instead of 1-2 so it's not very helpful for fractals. Only superior aura for using retreat at boss fights and writ of persistence for giving perma prot which is op for fractal are worth it. Your left with 10 points better spent taking that out. Power of the virtuous will be around 5% of your own dps but it would be better to add that 5 to the 10 from honor to get 15 in zeal since you can keep up 5-6 vuln which will increase everyones dps by the same amount and give you 150 more power on top of that. If your not the main source of condition removal you can take 10 more out of virtues and put it to radiance to max out your damage.
The best fractal builds would be 15/25/0/20/10 if you have another person in your group with decent condition removal for the group and 15/15/0/20/20 if not. The only unique support the hammer build does comes from perma prot from hammer auto + writ or persistance. To do the right support other than that you will want master of consecrations, blind spam from traited virtue of justice, and the maximum traited dps tailored to the group and content, as well as using the proper utilities for each fight. Gear can be substituted if you feel the need for more self preservation.
An optimized hammer build can do good damage. It's less damage than gs + sword rotation build but you give up dps loss for the perma prot for fractals which would make it more useful. Running 15/25/0/20/10 and doing gs + hammer rotations is nearly the same damage as 10/25/0/10/25 gs + sword/focus. Still you want to camp hammer for prot though it's still not a huge difference like you seem to think it is.
Also, all stat gear and runes are also bad for pve since you are using up stat points to things not worthwhile for a pve guardian like condition damage, healing, and toughness/vitality if you don't need them. Berserker (with a few assassins pieces) would be the best for intermediate-expert range and knights/zerker mix would be best for beginners.
Posted Epixors on 25 December 2013 - 09:58 PM
Standing by yourself autoattacking with hammer while everyone is spread out will not help them survive, but the healing from battle presence and 70% reg, prot, stability will.
Or the cond removal from absolute resolution and pure of voice.
Even if you dont use battle presence (and your numbers is way of on the heal btw) you still have better options and flexibility from going 30 in honor than 10 in zeal.
And celestial is not terrible, knight is not terrible. Toughness/cond dmg/healiing/vitality combos, those would be terrible. Celestial and knight would at least be decent even for damage specs.
I don't really understand why you're hating on spreadsheets, didn't even use one here. Naturally I use spreadsheets because they are a good way to calculate what's best to run so that I can inform new players on what would be best to do and help out people that want to know if one or the other is better.
As to who I am? Clearly someone who has a better understanding of the class and the game in general... I won't say I'm a great player, tbh I'm probably very average but I do try to learn, produce and help others in a way that is efficient and optimal.
If you're playing with people who range bosses you are playing with bad people who have never learned how to actively avoid damage because it's not required for almost all of the fights.
It seems the wiki and the in-game values don't match-up for Battle Presence so if that's the case I apologize, however in-game lists it as an even worse heal. I'd test it if it weren't completely useless.
If you're taking a hammer, using celestial gear with boon duration runes and then proceed to NOT use the hammer in my opinion you really have no idea what it means to be a Guardian in Fractals at all. I don't play Fractals alot, don't really enjoy them, but it's just common sense to use a weapon which can provide 100% protection up-time to your allies. If your party members range in the first place (bad thing) they don't need the protection (if they die at range they must suffer from some kind of mental illness) and you'll still help out those sensible enough to melee.
You can still provide stability and regeneration (regen isn't a great boon though) fine with a 15/15/0/20/20 or 15/25/0/20/10 setup fine and as mentioned before Battle Presence is terrible.
The new comment you posted just showed up, and if you don't PUG I'd start yelling at your friends/guildies to stand in melee. If you're wondering why someone should stand in melee range it's because the damage of melee weapons is higher (generally higher skill coefficient/second for melee weapons).
About the stat combos: "Toughness/cond dmg/healiing/vitality combos, those would be terrible."
There you go, you almost summed up Celestial gear...
TL;DR: It seems you don't know what to do, have no idea about any of the calculations you should be doing when building a class, are clearly playing with people who are clueless, are trying to mislead new players into bringing a bad build and the worst of all are not at all willing/able to bring good evidence for the choices you make and why you think they are better nor accept that the things I say are true.
Posted Epixors on 25 December 2013 - 07:40 PM
I really have no problem with you wanting to run this build, I do have a problem with you trying to spread a build which is far from optimal to new players who may be looking to play a good support spec (which would be 15/15/0/20/20 or 15/25/0/20/10).
You are calling this a support spec yet you stay in Greatsword for most of the time which is an offensive. Hammer is the way to go for a support spec as it gives everyone (provided they are not bad players and are in melee range) protection. Writ of Persistence will make sure to have the uptime high enough for 100% protection without boon duration opening up your rune slots for offensive ones and it will increase your damage output.
Your build has 1603 power without buffs. Power scales linearly so the 150 power from Zeal would be ~9.4% more damage. On top of that you gain a 10% damage modifier. This will beat Power of the Virtuous (usually averaging at ~4.5%) and Elusive Power which is an effective way of teaching people how to waste dodges.
Battle Presence will heal for ~394 every 3 seconds. First of all it's simply a waste to trait for healing others as they should take care of themselves and you can already prevent wipes with a well-timed Aegis (provided you know the content) and the heal itself is rather small.
Celestial is terrible for Guardians, if people want to be more tanky on bosses with strong auto-attacks (or when learning) they should use Knight's armor with Berserker trinkets/weapons, although I suggest simply starting out in berserker as transitioning is very annoying and a waste of money.
The healing power is a waste as there's bad scaling (and healing isn't needed as mentioned earlier), we aren't a condition damage class at all, toughness and vitality aren't needed as we're inherently good at actively mitigating damage.
So yeah, long story short no problem if you run this it's fine with me but if you post it as a guide a new player may read I will comment on it because imo this is just wrong.
Posted Epixors on 24 December 2013 - 10:48 PM
1. No one has even bothered to provide Silentstorm with a respectable critique of his work (the respectable part is super important). If you can't foster helpful discussion, don't bother posting.
2. A few people mentioned that forums are venue for critique. This is true, but at GW2Guru, critique is not "Boooooo! Get off the stage! *tomato volley*".
3. Watch your tones. Most of you read as aggressive and/or defensive. This is a forum, not the damn Hunger Games.
So please, from this point on, keep the discussion productive. Thank you.
I suppose we must have done a really great job then because I have literally never seen you around, ever.
You can't expect my tone to be friendly or even neutral now because of the OP and because of your reply to our actions trying to actually help out the newer players.
I guess I should give some constructive feedback so here goes.
Here's a spreadsheet comparing this Monk 1.0 build and the typical 10/30/0/5/25 build: https://docs.google....NFE&usp=sharing
Build A is the Monk one, build B the 10/30/0/5/25
Things taking into account for with the Monk build:
- Sigils were never specified, so I picked none assuming the author would use something like Life or Water
- I gave him a full berserker set because I cba to manually enter the celestial pieces, so this is a DPS upgrade for the monk build
- Switched the valkyrie trinkets to berserker because once again I cba to manually enter them
- Food is 100 power 70 prec, for fair comparison I used the same on build B
- Both use a dungeon potion
- Both have the same amount of boons active.
- Neither have Unscathed Contender because picking MoC or UC happens under the same circumstances so it's just something to create bigger numbers.
Conclusion: Build B's damage is over 77,87% better than build A's damage WHILE providing the things a Guardian should bring to a dungeon. I say over because I added the berserker pieces instead of celestial, if I used those the difference would be even greater.
So why do I think he should not advice this build to new players:
- It doesn't enhance/bring the core reason to bring a Guardian: Wall of Reflect and condition removal (EDIT: and that we can do it while doing good DPS)
- It doesn't bring a blast finisher (Focus does have one)
- It doesn't bring fire fields
- It doesn't bring good damage
- It has less access to Aegis (no shout cooldown and virtues recharge is longer), author never even mentions Aegis at all.
- The author obviously never even bothered to calculate it, and I quote: "I'm just trying to mix-and-match and change over things. I'm just playing around with this one."
- The author obviously doesn't have a lot of experience in the game either, I quote: "You're probably gonna get hit while you're doing this type of skill. The reason why you're going to get hit is because this has ramp-up time.", "I would suggest getting to 14k" (health)
Clearly never heard of actively mitigating damage.
EDIT: I just read Nike's post and noticed it had Valkyrie's pieces, never even noticed that as it wasn't even shown in the video and the OP didn't even go over his gear properly (didn't go over anything properly for that matter).