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El Duderino

Member Since 25 Jan 2013
Offline Last Active Mar 04 2014 03:40 PM

Posts I've Made

In Topic: Why Being Efficient is the Only Thing Left

03 March 2014 - 08:05 PM

View Postmaster21, on 03 March 2014 - 02:13 PM, said:

Really? You think that neural network are simulating human brain?

You do realize that the idea of a neural network came from neuroscience, right? Do you understand how the human brain is connected? It is indeed a neural network - just much more complex than what one might use to code AI for a computer.

Keep in mind that you aren't the only person here with programming or experience with AI. I actually have a bachelors degree in the closest thing to a degree in AI you can get.

In Topic: Why Being Efficient is the Only Thing Left

02 March 2014 - 02:12 AM

View PostEpitaph_Blade, on 02 March 2014 - 12:57 AM, said:

I see, well, I suspected such answer, since I kept seeing references of a "good" and a "bad" game, being related to this.

But I don't think you understand the consequences of such kind of AI.
I mean, of course, who wouldn't want options, certain places or levels were AI is better, and more challenging.
But no, your definition of a good game, is just, unreasonable.

I hope you can find a game that meet your expectations, which would probably be, a single player experience.

Why is it unreasonable? Should games be so dumbed down nowadays that you can sleep walk through them simply because they should be developed for the lowest common denominator?

Let me ask a question: In general, we consider arts and entertainment to be intertwined, right? So, what is generally considered good "art"? The stuff that is developed for the lowest common denominator or the stuff that was done well? Why should games be done differently? Why can't we say that GW2 is just like the Twilight Saga? Sure, it is a popular series of movies, but no one is giving it any awards. No one is saying that it is really any good in any objective sense. Why are you saying that games should be held to a lower standard than other art and to ask for more is unreasonable??

In Topic: Why Being Efficient is the Only Thing Left

02 March 2014 - 12:29 AM

View PostEchou, on 01 March 2014 - 11:07 PM, said:

If you expect an MMO to have a highly designed AI, keep on walking.

If you are OK with settling for crap, then keep on playing...

I suppose your attitude is what allows the continual output of generic themepark MMO WoW clones to keep doing well enough to keep developers from wanting to innovate.

In Topic: Why Being Efficient is the Only Thing Left

01 March 2014 - 08:36 PM

View PostPhineas Poe, on 01 March 2014 - 08:15 PM, said:

I don't think it's silly that you draw back to Guild Wars 1. I think it's silly that you draw back to Guild Wars, but only allow references to Prophecies and only how it operated during its first 12 months. For a game that over the following six years had two stand-alone campaigns and an expansion, making an example of Assassin, a class that was around for six of the seven years of Guild Wars 1's shelf life is more than an appropriate comparison to make.

And it's not like assassin was the only class with skill rotations. There were contextual skills across all classes. Skills like Glowstone had conditional effects that were bountiful when used properly but terrible when used poorly. Most elementalist builds that integrated these types of skills settled into skill rotations that allowed content to be solo-able in a way that was otherwise not possible. And then there's the Searing Flames/Glowing Gaze build that was pretty much meta for over two years, but integrated active rotational use of Glyph of Lesser Energy to be most effective. It resulted in a 122223122223122223 kind of playstyle that's almost carbon copy to what we have in Guild Wars 2. They just removed energy and put cooldowns in its place.

But of course, I'm talking about Nightfall skills. So I guess it's not appropriate to mention. Because Nightfall was apparently less a part of Guild Wars than Prophecies was.

Perhaps you should stop trying to argue about Guild Wars 1 and just take the example at face value. There is no value in trying to argue what GW1 was or wasn't. It was just an example. You seriously don't know how to stay on topic or follow a conversation do you?

View PostMinion, on 01 March 2014 - 08:30 PM, said:

I agree with you that Duderino should refer to the whole of Guild Wars' lifespan when making claims about the game. I disagree with what you are calling a rotation, however. Solo farm builds had a rotation because if you did not, you would be dead. Somewhat detrimental to DPS.

So, when I try to make an example using something from Guild Wars 1 I am restricted to referring to the entire length of the game even though that game changed drastically from the release through today?

I think what people aren't understanding here is that I'm not trying to prove anything about GW1. That is something that Phineas is doing to derail this thread. I am simply making an example of something that was a part of GW1 at a point in it's history as an example of how things could be done better or differently in GW2, in my opinion.

In Topic: Why Being Efficient is the Only Thing Left

01 March 2014 - 07:48 PM

View PostEpitaph_Blade, on 01 March 2014 - 07:08 PM, said:

But then, are we talking about playing against an AI or against other player?
In GW2 if you try a rotation against another player, and it always work, it may be ill balanced, but most of the time, between skilled players, that doesn't happen.

Against an AI, you can achieve some of that, but to a certain point, because, well, computers are better than people at, computing. And  I don't think we want to make a mmo that difficult either, it would be interesting tho, to have a certain level for players that would like that challenge.

Is GW2 a bad game? (Y/N)

I think that this is an inherent problem of AI that should (hopefully) be something that gets fixed some day. The fact that we have PvX wikis and YouTube runs showing exactly how to do content is something that I think can be improved upon dramatically. There shouldn't be a "this way" to do content in a game that considers itself, well, a real game. As entertainment, it certainly works. But, as form of entertainment that differentiates itself as something that is based on the user being able to make choices - having a system of mindless obedience to a specific "meta" reduces said choices and thereby really detracts from its status as a game.

I'm not going to say that GW2 is a bad game, but these are the kind of things that make it less of a good game.

View PostPhineas Poe, on 01 March 2014 - 07:44 PM, said:

Whether it's 1 class or 10, the point is that rotations were an aspect of Guild Wars 1, even if at a diminished level.

As for being "added later," I think it's really silly that you continually draw back arguments about Guild Wars 1, a game that was around for seven years before its sequel was launched, limiting discussion purely on the basis of how it operated in Prophecies in the first year of its existence.

It actually does matter. When you pick the one thing that doesn't work like the others to try and make a statement about a whole - that is a bad argument. You simply cannot take a minority of a whole and use it to explain or make a reference to the whole. That is called bad logic. I have other words for it too, but I would get infracted for using them.

Basically, it is disingenuous.

And, if you think it is silly that we use examples of other games that we believe do things better than this game, I don't know what to tell you. Maybe you should go play the game and stop getting upset about how people compare things? ;)

What you don't understand is that I can reference any part of Guild Wars 1 as an example of what I think was done well - and it doesn't have to encompass the entire game. It is just an example. There is plenty that GW1 did poorly, and I would be happy to use them as an example as well if it was important. In this discussion, the things that GW1 did poorly aren't part of what I am trying to stress they did well in comparison to GW2.

I know that this may be hard for you to understand. So, instead of getting defensive, take a moment to let it sink in before replying with another defensive post that makes no sense and no point.