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El Duderino

Member Since 25 Jan 2013
Offline Last Active Aug 12 2014 02:25 AM

#2321141 Interview: The ArenaNet Team on the Aftermath of Season 1

Posted Konzacelt on 29 April 2014 - 09:59 PM

I must be missing something then.  To me, the dialogue is barely better than the 3rd-person cut-scenes...which is to say bad.  I honestly don't know how anyone can be the least bit engaged with the dialogue.  It's childish.


#2314796 Interview: The ArenaNet Team on the Aftermath of Season 1

Posted Desild on 07 April 2014 - 07:16 PM

Book ends for the first dull chapter of Guild Wars 2 history. It ended as it began. With a lot of refugee moving from one place to another due to a threat that will "shake the very foundations of the world".

I'd say I'm glad it is over, but then I remember this is but a prelude of things to come. Which will probably be as bad and as forgetable.


#2320321 Worth coming back to Guild wars 2?

Posted Baron von Scrufflebutt on 26 April 2014 - 01:12 PM

View PostGilles VI, on 26 April 2014 - 12:16 PM, said:

The multiplayer aspect. + some JP's, and hidden places actually require some thinking contrary to portal.


Not so sure man: I always have the feeling that GW2's jumping puzzles are done so that you fail because the screen is too dark, or the camera gets in the way or ... whereas with Portal I fail the puzzles because I can't figure out exactly what to do. In Portal you fail because you are stupid, whereas in GW2, you fail because the game treats you like you are stupid.


#2320273 Worth coming back to Guild wars 2?

Posted MazingerZ on 26 April 2014 - 07:05 AM

View Postkonsta_hoptrop, on 26 April 2014 - 06:57 AM, said:

you sound like a WoW player , i mean the bad WoW players that ignore everything that's different from WoW. There is much to do at lvl 35.  Even at lvl 80. But if you coudn't even level a single char to lvl 80, the game is not for you. No need to come back, find another game

Mildly amused.  He only said the game wasn't for him.  And then you called him a bad WoW player.  Perhaps you should solicit some deeper impressions before rushing to judge.  Near as I can tell, he just doesn't like the game.  For whatever reason.  Seems valid. A lot of people who never played WoW (GW1 players) don't like GW2.


#2320723 What GW2 does right

Posted Age on 28 April 2014 - 12:35 AM

View PostMisterB, on 01 April 2014 - 03:49 PM, said:

GW2 has no subscription cost. Nothing else matters for players like myself who won't give the game a second look if it has a pay-to-play barrier to entry.
The Original GW did that as well as as all PWE MMOs as well as LoTR.I much prefer the crafting system in PWI.When it comes to loot sharing GW did that as well.When it comes to going to to lower levels GW has hard mode if you want and get bigger/better loot.
The only thing it does right is balance the Economy instead of high inflated prices instead of seeing ecto going for say 20K a glob


#2319787 Interview: The ArenaNet Team on the Aftermath of Season 1

Posted MCBiohazard on 24 April 2014 - 01:06 PM

View PostPariah, on 24 April 2014 - 10:26 AM, said:

You could do almost all the missions in Prophecies out of order, except for Thunderhead Keep which was required to access the Ring of Fire missions... Many people skipped the Maguuma ones altogether by running to Sanctum Cay from LA, or straight to Droknar's Forge and the southern Shiverpeaks missions from Beacon's Perch. I don't miss the voice acting in GW1, but the replayability and the greater length of many of the missions is a definite plus for the first game.

The two ends of your post kind of contradict each other even though I agree with the overall message to a degree. How come people kept trying to skip Maguuma or paid for runs, especially Drok run? Probably because some of the missions in between were a bit too long to be replayable especially for an alt that's seen most of the game already (or hasn't but doesn't want to).

View Postraspberry jam, on 23 April 2014 - 09:28 AM, said:

The GW1 Prophecies storyline had something that the GW2 storyline lacks. In GW1, you start out as a member of an elite but irregular military scouting force. You get drawn into hero stuff already then though: you prevent the charr from making the final breakthrough into southern Ascalon, you go deep behind enemy lines to free people, you get to recapture the capital city! And that is before the main story even starts. By the time you get to Lion's Arch, you're a hero - but then what? Instead of joining the refugee Ascalonians, you are dumped in LA where you have to find new employment. After joining the White Mantle, you are drawn into a conspiracy theory that turns out to be true, you have to escape across the seas carrying a magical artifact, you have to find your destiny, recapture another kingdom and then finally invade the home of the bad guys - and then there is another twist waiting for you.

That you see all these story twists and narrative pumps way before they happen, or that it's all very cheesy, doesn't really matter. Because even though there were no narrative branches, it still felt like progressing the story was your choice. That is in part due to gameplay: everywhere you went, you could stay as long as you wanted and smell the flowers. There was never the feeling of "I want to do this but I have to stop and grind this first" that you (or at least I) ran into with the GW2 personal story all the time. There was also the feeling of wanting to see where the story went - you knew it would go somewhere cheesy and that it would have bad voice acting, but you never knew exactly what twist was behind the next corner (for example, I thought that Khilbron was going to turn the world undead or something, I had no idea that his plan was to summon some kinda monsters from hell itself).

In short: deep hero stuff and player agency.

Maintaining the illusion of player agency is what A-Net dropped the ball on completely with their personal story and LS and I think that's what I've been trying to say from the start in this discussion. What they ended up with was like the Mass Effect 3 ending only you didn't even have A B or C as a fake choice that comes to the same result. But that is solely a writing and narrative issue in my opinion. It isn't to say that the personal story structure didn't have or can't have the potential to be executed better. If they refocused the writing team and put together something entirely new for an 'expansion' style release, or even went back and rejiggered the entire second half of the existing personal story, it could go over well as long as they maintain the illusion that you are important and you're in control of things. Not necessarily the most important as some folks here think I was trying to say you should be, but the primary focus of your own dang personal story. It's supposed to be about you after all. Then they can throw whatever twists they want at you, no matter how cheesy they are.

For example, why do you have to go to the Mother Tree if you're not a Sylvari and can't be arsed to care? If you're any other race, you should have an equally flavorful prophecy thingy tailored to your particular race. Maybe the humans evoke their gods, the asura work some technobabble magic, the Charr don't prophesize at all but just hash it out in a tribunal council, and the Norn likewise in a moot or maybe a spirit animal quest. Instead of following the dick plant like a lapdog, you find your own way of figuring out that you have to go into that blasted wasteland. He has his thing and his mom's sword, sure, but you're going in for your own reasons instead of following his quest and his story. That's the illusion they dropped the ball on.


#2319766 Interview: The ArenaNet Team on the Aftermath of Season 1

Posted Pariah on 24 April 2014 - 10:26 AM

You could do almost all the missions in Prophecies out of order, except for Thunderhead Keep which was required to access the Ring of Fire missions... Many people skipped the Maguuma ones altogether by running to Sanctum Cay from LA, or straight to Droknar's Forge and the southern Shiverpeaks missions from Beacon's Perch. I don't miss the voice acting in GW1, but the replayability and the greater length of many of the missions is a definite plus for the first game.


#2319762 Interview: The ArenaNet Team on the Aftermath of Season 1

Posted raspberry jam on 24 April 2014 - 10:03 AM

View PostEl Duderino, on 23 April 2014 - 03:53 PM, said:

Really love this post. The illusion of choice is just as strong as real choice, if done well. Actually, the benefits may end up being better from a design perspective.
Yeah. I think that giving players just the right amount of choice while at the same time giving them something important to do will make them feel as if the parts where they can't choose are like them being dragged along by fate itself or something - like in so many tales of heroes. It sort of feels real, yet feels epic. I think that that's how you build immersion.

And yeah, it's much easier from a design perspective. Imagine doing a sandbox game that could still generate the same kind of story as in GW1. Very tricky, even in single player.

View PostKonzacelt, on 23 April 2014 - 06:43 PM, said:

I don't mean to say the PC was never important, he/she was.  But there's a difference between being an important part of the narrative, and being the backbone of the narrative.  Up until the Fire Islands, I never felt like where ever I went my fame demanded instant respect from anyone.  There were plenty of times where NPC's in cut scenes treated you as a peer and not as one above them.  And still other scenes where you were obviously the smaller fish, like with Evennia or Rurik.  The Crystal Desert area is kind of wehre you "come into your own" and start to be the worldly hero you were supposedly meant to be.  And that whole area I think is supposed to be seen as you wondering out there in the desert, searching for your fate like a forlorn, but hopeful soul.  Even in the Southern Shivs your job is to rescue others who's lives are invariably more important than yours.

Even without nearly any choice in the matter, GW1 managed to make a story with quality and immersion that kept you interested, despite the limitations and faults like sub-par voice-acting or corny side-quests.  I honestly can't put my finger on any really specific reason, other than what I've said already, as to why GW2 just doesn't "do it for me" like its predecessor.  I even started a new toon this week just to try and get a fresh take on the game with the new updates in place.  After a year of even seeing any PS cut-scenes, I still find myself immediately clicking the skip button almost every time.

/le sigh
I really like that in the crystal desert there missions are not in order, you can do them as you like. Well, I guess there is an order of sorts, but you can mostly ignore it. You are right in that before that area you are more restricted, but there is still the illusion of choice when getting to LA and having to locate the quest giver that starts the new string of missions. Before that, yes you are definitely following Rurik around. When it came to Evennia though I disagree, I felt like a hero already. She might've led the Shining Blade, but I was the tip of that organization's spear. So to speak.

Ugh the GW2 cutscenes. IMO it was a big, huge, mistake to make those cutscenes where two guys just stand there talking to each other as if on a stage. You don't even see where they are. They kill the mood so hard for me.


#2319136 Feature Patch Update Notes

Posted ilr on 22 April 2014 - 06:52 AM

Wait, are you serious?   Their "Mega Update" is to just get rid of all the unnecessary hurdles that GW1 didn't even have in the first place??  I especially love how they went and rebranded the old District system as "MegaServers".  I don't think ANYONE was stupid enough to fall for them passing off all this unnecessary feature ♥♥♥♥-blocking as "Content" to begin with.  Oh and lol they nerfed dungeon rewards even more I see.  Guess some things never change. :eek:

Why did this take a year and a half again?  I'm confused.  It sure as heck ain't no "expansion"


#2319376 ArenaNet to "address [...] the dominance of Berserker/DPS"

Posted Save 4 Less on 23 April 2014 - 02:04 AM

View Postmoriz0, on 23 April 2014 - 01:45 AM, said:

^
TL;DR version: the damage advantage offered by berserker is not worth the loss of survivability. this is because the overall damage increase offered is relatively small, over things like valkyrie and soldiers.
I don't think you pve enough if you seriously believe that.


#2319364 How Players are Permanently Changing Guild Wars 2's Living World

Posted ilr on 23 April 2014 - 01:22 AM

View PostMazingerZ, on 07 April 2014 - 07:37 PM, said:

Remember, these assets are developed months in advance... They don't throw anything out and either find a way to re-purpose it or go ahead and use it anyway.

When I look at the Scheduling of this
.... it really strikes me as a counter-response to the latest efforts that ironically vulgar Bizzarro-PR numbskull John Smedley put out to try and keep the hype train going for Minecraft2....EQ Migrant Landscaper.  To SOE's credit, it's not like Notch ever let people bevel the edges of their giant Phalic monuments. So I guess this is how Anet thinks they can burnish the literary pineapples it keeps fattyArbuckling where the reading-lamp doesn't shine.



EDIT:
If I had to stop being so cynical for a while.... and really address this in a problem diagnosing manner, I'd say it's obvious exactly what they did wrong here with the Story-arc design of the game.   And that is how it's an inverted Pyramid going the opposite direction on where 2 very specific pathways should have taken the player.   I guess now that the "home" cities of everything but Humans are so deserted kinda works with the first concept which is that you WANT your new players to start off feeling kind of .... Alone, and in need of making friends.  And you want the storyline to sort of thrust them together with larger and larger populations of more and more diverse player groups.

They're a bit too late with Districting through ... oh sorry, I mean "MegaServers" now to really make up for the lack of planning here.  But the sentiment remains the same.  Meanwhile the actual story line has to BRANCH OUT, and allow itself to go in the direction the player would prefer for it to really be interactive.  Otherwise it's just the MassEffect3 cop-out ... No I take that back, ME3 would be an upgrade to the credit-thieving plot-puree of Kormir Trahearne and the magical turret symphony -- which was actually the high point before things devolved into Scarlet fever

How do you accomplish both of those seemingly divergent Design goals for the Story?....  Pretty much the same way GW1 did.before things got really confuddled and went into the Wedding events ditch


#2319427 Interview: The ArenaNet Team on the Aftermath of Season 1

Posted raspberry jam on 23 April 2014 - 09:28 AM

The GW1 Prophecies storyline had something that the GW2 storyline lacks. In GW1, you start out as a member of an elite but irregular military scouting force. You get drawn into hero stuff already then though: you prevent the charr from making the final breakthrough into southern Ascalon, you go deep behind enemy lines to free people, you get to recapture the capital city! And that is before the main story even starts. By the time you get to Lion's Arch, you're a hero - but then what? Instead of joining the refugee Ascalonians, you are dumped in LA where you have to find new employment. After joining the White Mantle, you are drawn into a conspiracy theory that turns out to be true, you have to escape across the seas carrying a magical artifact, you have to find your destiny, recapture another kingdom and then finally invade the home of the bad guys - and then there is another twist waiting for you.

That you see all these story twists and narrative pumps way before they happen, or that it's all very cheesy, doesn't really matter. Because even though there were no narrative branches, it still felt like progressing the story was your choice. That is in part due to gameplay: everywhere you went, you could stay as long as you wanted and smell the flowers. There was never the feeling of "I want to do this but I have to stop and grind this first" that you (or at least I) ran into with the GW2 personal story all the time. There was also the feeling of wanting to see where the story went - you knew it would go somewhere cheesy and that it would have bad voice acting, but you never knew exactly what twist was behind the next corner (for example, I thought that Khilbron was going to turn the world undead or something, I had no idea that his plan was to summon some kinda monsters from hell itself).

In short: deep hero stuff and player agency.

Oh and this:

View PostKonzacelt, on 08 April 2014 - 03:23 PM, said:

The narrative is written with a junior high, pop-culture mentality that doesn't even come close to GW1 story-telling.  Sure there were times in GW1 where the story felt derpy or trite, but not because they were trying to.  In GW2 they actually are trying to be derpy and trite.  Anyone remember the Ginyu Force pose-off the Molten Alliances bosses did in the final dungeon encounter?  WTF is that?  Is this a Saturday morning cartoon?
While I don't agree with you about the PC focus, I do agree about this.


#2318389 Unlocking traits.

Posted Datenshi92 on 19 April 2014 - 11:32 AM

View PostImprovavel, on 19 April 2014 - 10:58 AM, said:

Another amazing feedback from forums that couldn't keep their mouths shut about "how amazing it was to cap elite skills in GW1".

It wasn't amazing. It was incredible boring, dull and annoying. That is why skill tomes, elite or otherwise, were hot items in GW1.

Sorry to disappoint you but I'm never going to shut up about "how amazing it is", and you know why? Because it all boils down to opinions and it was one the features that I personally loved in GW1. Capturing elite skills was usually a goal to look forward to. Sure, sometimes it was a bit frustrating, as I had to travel across all the continents to capture that very specific one but the adventure for it was what made it unique. Its one of those things that I felt accomplished after getting the one I wanted.

Skill tomes were hot items, not because there was a problem with the capturing feature per se, but rather because no one has the disposition to do the same trials for the 50th time. Its also why every skill you captured was made account-bound and easily obtainable from any skill-trainer for your alts. Since the game offered you more than 2 alternative ways of (re)acquiring them, why does it matter to you whether others love capturing them or not? To each their own, choose your method and leave others to do whatever they want.

Opinions may diverge now because everyone was already used the the "old system". But newbie players will never have such "privilege", they will just think that this is how the game is supposed to be and either hate it, because the prefer the generic trait-tree, or love it because of its uniqueness.


Back on-topic:
I just really, really hope that they don't make us go through any form of PvP to acquire said skills... or at least make it optional, using PvP currency to unlock them for PvE. I have tons of badges that need to be wasted and I just don't know what to use them on.


#2302991 Why Being Efficient is the Only Thing Left

Posted raspberry jam on 03 March 2014 - 07:34 PM

View Postmaster21, on 03 March 2014 - 02:13 PM, said:

Really? You think that neural network are simulating human brain?

Is just a plain black box. Every neural in this network has couple of inputs, sum up them with some multiplicative and if treshold is met it just make an output to another neurals.
Thats it. All.
You can train neural network with data, it even work and give enough good results. Why it's black box?
When neural network gives you an answer that this input  = make decision A, this mean that it's output is for example 0.431 which is similar to output of other decision A examples.
You have NO idea why you should make this decision. It's AI based not on any type of conditions, just summing up and multiplicate by some numbers.

It works great for pattern recognition, it work for classification, but for AI in games? Not that much.

Games AI is in 99% of the time condition script based, with random elements. We use random to either force AI to change behavior (so it look less scripted, more "free") or to simulate non-ideal situtations, like awerness, aiming, etc.

Things like avoiding aoe by AI are very hard to implement and they could work only in limited scenario. It's easier to do it on grid/hex type of map, it's hard on free movement type of maps. It's easier when aoe are limited, very hard in gw2 where amount of aoe (mostly those staying for xx time) is quite huge.
First it makes melee bosses problematic to script, because priority should be on attacking players, not avoiding. Those bosses should move very precise way and smart way, trying to find a spot in which there is no aoe but there is a range for attack.
It is also connected with target switching, which can lead to some abuse. It's also very hard to implement algorithm for precise movement. Why? Because you need to calculate in real time a lot of things. For human finding way between 2 aoe and goind in some curve is a simple task, for computer is a lot of work to find this optimum way.
Also there a plenty of moments in which it's impossible to avoid all of aoe. Sometimes it's better to stay instead of moving, sometimes it's better to go right because aoes there deal less damage, etc. Huge amount of work for ppl and still probably end result wouldn't be that great in general.

What can be done imo.

100% pure melee bosses should have more variety of moves. First point blank aoes or other types of anti melee moves. They shoudn't be random or "cheap" but telegraphed. We still want moves which can be avoided, we just want to avoid facetank.
Those bosses should also have anti ranged moves, leaps.
But imo best way to avoid stacking are moves connected with pressure. Let boss stick to one player for some time and attack him all the time. Player should be forced to dodge and maybe even run away. Connect this with some phases or whatever, maybe enrage, in which when boss get some player down in that phase boss get some special move etc.

For ranged boss it's simple. Implement AI in which they try to move and stay in range (movement need to be better, like going backwards and shooting to avoid stupid movement), maybe moves like leap backwards etc.
This should help with corner pulls, boss even when pulled that way should quite fast leap or move out of way.
Still sometimes it will be necessary to remake some maps to avoid "dead ends" like corners.

For trash mobs.
Anet has this type of behavior even implemented. Some dredge bombers like to move away from melee players. This should be implemented to every ranged mobs and improved.
Some melee mobs should prefer frontal attack, some prefer going back. Best way will be to implement "flanking" algorithm which isn't that hard, this should help with corner pulls.

Imo main focus on trash mobs should be made in way in which mobs avoid staying stack and instead try to flank player (ranged mobs going ranged). It still should be possible to fight stacked with mobs but only with good combination of skills. Pulls + cc + snared should be the way to force mobs stacked in one place.


Ambush is possible as you said but it's still random/scripted system which can be predicted. It also does not change much in gw2 because making open world content harder isn't really a good thing. This content should stay easy.
Making this type of things in dungeons could be good but could be also not good. It would make dungeons more random (sometimes you can kill those 2 mobs alone, sometimes you need to fight 6 at once) but personally I don't like difficulty being connected with random things. Let fotm be the best example of random difficulty.
I know what an ANN is. They are great decision-making structures. And yes, they are, to some point, a (extremely simplistic) simulation of a brain. The interesting thing is that they can crank out a percentage which can be used together with an RNG to make state transitions seem both random and intelligent.



Yes, ambush could be predicted. But note that that is a good thing, since being able to differentiate ambush from just a mob fleeing is a question of battle awareness, which should be rewarded much more than it actually is in GW2 (where it usually amounts to "red rings hurts").


#2302976 Why Being Efficient is the Only Thing Left

Posted Minion on 03 March 2014 - 06:44 PM

View PostNikephoros, on 03 March 2014 - 03:36 PM, said:

...the unpredictable nature of dynamic combat...

I'm sorry, did you miss that part of the thread where we all agreed the AI was predictable and static?