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El Duderino

Member Since 25 Jan 2013
Offline Last Active Jan 29 2015 03:36 AM

#2346300 Is GW2 dead now or is it just the forums?

Posted raspberry jam on 14 January 2015 - 12:54 PM

View PostBaron von Scrufflebutt, on 14 January 2015 - 09:13 AM, said:

GW1 feels like grabbing a bunch of friends, shoving them into a car and going on a road trip. GW2 feels like bumping into people in the mall.
Is one better than the other? Depends on what you are looking for. Personally, I agree with RJ; GW1 felt more meaningful and I prefer it over GW2.
I love how GW1 actually gives the feeling you have when you sit down with a group of friends and play D&D.

The GW2 version would be playing D&D on your own, surrounded by people that you might or might not know and who are also playing on their own, and then some of those people suddenly joins in your game and leaves at random.


#2344929 Is GW2 dead now or is it just the forums?

Posted Phineas Poe on 23 December 2014 - 03:55 PM

View PostEl Duderino, on 19 December 2014 - 06:12 PM, said:

Well Phineas, I agree with this 100%. For as much as I would have rather had a game similar to GW1, I wasn't terribly unhappy with GW2 until I finished leveling my first character and said, "Now what?"

WvW was okay for a while, but became stale and monotonous. Dungeons can only be run so many times before they were boring. By the time they did anything unique with boss encounters, I had had enough of the game.

I'm sorry to keep harping about GW1, but it's the only other MMO-ish game that I have ever played, so it the only thing I have to compare GW2 to; but, GW1 gave me lots of opportunities to make me feel like I was in control of what I wanted to do in regards to end-game, without it ever getting stale. GvG, HA and RA were extraordinarily well made and terrific time wasters. Furthermore, the various max-level content areas, specific with rare drops unique to each zone, gave me plenty of opportunity to have fun treasure seeking.

Had GW2 given me even a glimpse of this style of end-game, I think I would have forgiven the differences I had with it in regards to combat and would still be playing it. As such, I couldn't be bothered to grind a second character past level 40 and gave up.

TBH, if GW2 didn't have armor insignias and simply had stat allocation through runes in sigils (kind of like GW1) I think a lot would have been more satisfied with the end-game. There are dungeon armor sets in this game that are absolutely fantastic but offered bad stats. And until the wardrobe came out there wasn't really a good way to collect gear and use it effectively.

If GW2 had the wardrobe and collections system at launch, it probably would have fared better for a lot of players; but because these changes came 1.5 to 2 years down the pipeline, well after most players had done all the dungeons they wanted to, they're under-utilized.

I've ran so many fractals and dungeon runs to fund two legendaries. And after I'm burnt out of doing them, they now come out with collection quests.

♥♥♥♥. That.


#2344722 Is GW2 dead now or is it just the forums?

Posted Captain Bulldozer on 19 December 2014 - 12:51 AM

I think some of you have missed the mark... by quite a bit in fact.  Why did GW never attain the popularity of WoW?  There are a few basic points that pretty much sum it up:

1)  No one had ever heard of Arena.net when GW1 was released.  On the other hand, Blizzard was a very well established company even back then due to it's massively popular RTS games.  GW1 was Arenanet's first game of note.

2)  Marketing.  GW1 had a very small marketing budget, most gamers who would have loved GW never heard about it, or heard about it AFTER they had already invested themselves in WoW.

3)  Playing GW1 was more challenging than playing WoW (or many other MMOs to this point).  Being successful often required synergy, teamwork and intelligence on a level that WoW has never really matched. While this is one of the things that made the game great, it's also something that turned off a lot of players.  PvP was difficult to enter because of this, and even PvE (at least for a while) could be massively challenging.

4)  Budget and business plan..  WoW's budget allowed for a real usable z-axis, something GW1 did not pay for. WoW was supported by a subscription model that isn't so different from a drug habit.  You don't have to sell the best quality coke to keep people coming back for more.  GW on the other hand required massive new content releases to make money, driving the quality of those releases up, but also making the game feel less accessible to new players (how many people said, "I can't get into it on an equal footing when there are already 2 expansions out there..." and din't buy it for that reason?)

I don't think GW2 is like Soviet Russian.  GW1 is basically Germany: tight, efficient, creative and well thought out.  Wow is like the USA: big, dumbed down and full of fat stupid people with more money than intelligence. I guess that makes GW2 something like the USA in the movie Idiocracy:  bigger, stupider and less likely to get better.


#2344686 Is GW2 dead now or is it just the forums?

Posted ExplosivePinata on 18 December 2014 - 09:29 AM

View PostCutthroat, on 15 December 2014 - 05:06 PM, said:

GW2 is like Finland - there are lots of introverts & melancholic people. I don't want to play a game which reminds me of real life. :P

GW2 is more like Sweden, specifically for IKEA, instead of content we get furniture rearranging and always for the worse. I'll just have to live with the fact that Guild Wars was a one off and the talent has left the building. Now we have Cox's and interns  all ramming their pet projects down our throats with no thought to "Is this actually fun?".


#2344677 Introducing the New Daily Achievement System

Posted Haggus on 18 December 2014 - 01:00 AM

View PostEl Duderino, on 17 December 2014 - 11:26 PM, said:

Perhaps you should stop worrying and trying to change the way people feel and the merits of their feelings and argue the actual change. I understand that it is insignificant as far as players are concerned. However, as far as objectively grading its objectives and motives, it falls flat on its face. It is neither good game design - as it has nothing to do with game design - and it is a rather bad incentive to get people to play. I mean, that is exactly what it is - an incentive to get people to log in. As such, it doesn't really address any of the core reasons why someone may not be logging in.
This.  You could almost argue it's a way to generate more Raptr votes to make it look more successful.

As far as game issues, I think the Silverwastes is a better step in the right direction.  Interesting side stories, multi-layered exploration possibilities, cray-cray events on a continuous loop... If they expanded on the things they did there, fleshing out stories and putting in challenges that are more than whack-a-mole-while-surviving-condi-my-character-wishes-they-had, they would keep people for more than a log-in or three hours of living story.


#2344641 Introducing the New Daily Achievement System

Posted Konzacelt on 17 December 2014 - 06:41 PM

View PostEl Duderino, on 16 December 2014 - 05:45 PM, said:

Giving people incentives just to LOG IN to a game is a completely desperate attempt at, well, getting people to log into a game. If the game was good enough, you wouldn't have to dangle a carrot in front of the customer simply to get them to engage with it, regardless of actually needing to play the game - which is the whole point of a game's existence

I wouldn't say it's completely desperate, merely rather desperate. :P

As an amusing comparison, GW1 actually encouraged you not to play the game too much.  I still remember those "You have been playing for X hours, please take a break." reminders.  Not a chance in hell GW2 ANet would have the balls to implement that.  One can almost hear the pinkslip from NCSoft landing on that poor employee's desk in Bellevue.


#2344626 Introducing the New Daily Achievement System

Posted Kymeric on 17 December 2014 - 04:11 PM

View PostKamatsu, on 17 December 2014 - 03:20 AM, said:

B. I'm personally sad to see the new daily system go back to the way the old daily system was - in that to actually achieve the daily & get your 10 AP... your forced to go all over the place, and can NOT finish it just by playing the game normally anymore.


Yet another indicator that there is a lack of good leadership at ArenaNet.  Since launch, they've revamped dailies a couple of times (including the first implementing of them), and they keep bouncing back and forth between a more transparent, immersive design and a heavy handed, checklist design.  IMO, the #1 problem with GW2 is the lack of a clear design vision against which they judge their "iterations" before implementing them.  Everything smacks of a reactive, rather than proactive development process.

Instead of leaders with a vision and direction for the game, they design around problems that pop up by throwing ideas at it in hopes that something will stick.  It should be "how could dailies fit into what we want this game to be?"  Instead it seems to be "login numbers are down, maybe we can patch that hole with a revamp of the dailies."

It's not that unusual for any of us to get stuck putting out fires instead of spending our time setting and working toward clear goals.  ArenaNet seemed, however, to be more vision-driven in the past, so it's hard to swallow that they've moved so far into reactionary development.


#2344611 Introducing the New Daily Achievement System

Posted raspberry jam on 17 December 2014 - 01:29 PM

View PostBaron von Scrufflebutt, on 17 December 2014 - 12:23 PM, said:

I have to wonder if that's actually the case. Now, I am not disputing that it's done in a way that does not benefit the game, but I wonder if GW2's playerbase even cares. GW2 is seemingly in a position where its core players are either forced to suck it up or give up on the MMO genre. And as the declining profits show, there are people that are giving up, but as the profits themselves show, there seems to be a lot of people that aren't willing to give it up. (Heck, we probably wouldn't be discussing it here if we weren't still attached to it. ;))
You have a point. They are doing it badly, but it doesn't matter because it represents an investment great enough for players to not switch to some other game - so they really have nowhere to go (except giving up).
I wonder what effect a game in the same genre as GW1, but released 2015 or so, would have on the market.


#2344578 Introducing the New Daily Achievement System

Posted Baron von Scrufflebutt on 16 December 2014 - 07:56 PM

View PostCaptain Bulldozer, on 16 December 2014 - 06:01 PM, said:

Well said.

For comparison purposes here, I'll walk in and add the following observation:

The original Guild Wars game did not add anything in the form of daily rewards until the daily Zaishen quests; something which happened more than 4 years AFTER GW1 launched, and more than 2 years after the last major purchasable content release.  Also, from my recollection, a significant portion of GW1's playerbase started playing the game (and contiuned to do so) somewhere around the 2 year in mark. Though I doubt it's anything new to say, how can anyone not acknowledge the difference in quality between those two games given these two striking difference?

Personally, I still consider ZQuests to be a pretty decent model of how to incorporate dailies. I always found them to be a way that promotes doing content, whereas GW2's dailies are about doing non-content, or filler. GW2's requirements such as  "salvage items", "apply conditions", "dodge", "craft items", "kill non hostile creatures", ...are nowhere near as intriguing as  "Do Vizunah". Even ZBounties were more intriguing because of the instanced nature of GW1: the boss was designed with a specific party(size) in mind, so the fight could push the player much more. In GW2, the fight in open-world basically need to be able to be played by 1 person or 30. It's simply impossible to design these encounters as tightly and precisely as you can an encounter where you know exactly how many people are going to go against it.

And it was that tight design that kept the content intriguing and allowed the dailies to be an extra incentive to do it, rather than the sole reason for doing it. In GW2, on the other hand, the reward is the sole reason to do something, because without it, you might as well not be doing it.


#2344566 Introducing the New Daily Achievement System

Posted Captain Bulldozer on 16 December 2014 - 06:01 PM

View PostEl Duderino, on 16 December 2014 - 05:45 PM, said:

Giving people incentives just to LOG IN to a game is a completely desperate attempt at, well, getting people to log into a game. If the game was good enough, you wouldn't have to dangle a carrot in front of the customer simply to get them to engage with it, regardless of actually needing to play the game - which is the whole point of a game's existence.


Well said.

For comparison purposes here, I'll walk in and add the following observation:

The original Guild Wars game did not add anything in the form of daily rewards until the daily Zaishen quests; something which happened more than 4 years AFTER GW1 launched, and more than 2 years after the last major purchasable content release.  Also, from my recollection, a significant portion of GW1's playerbase started playing the game (and contiuned to do so) somewhere around the 2 year in mark. Though I doubt it's anything new to say, how can anyone not acknowledge the difference in quality between those two games given these two striking difference?


#2344539 Introducing the New Daily Achievement System

Posted raspberry jam on 16 December 2014 - 01:56 PM

View PostSatenia, on 16 December 2014 - 12:33 PM, said:

You are playing the game almost daily anyway. Now you get a small gift upon login in, like when you go to your favourite shopping mall or something and upon entering you get a little present. This is neither in conflict with your activities nor does it cheapen your actual accomplishments (the "final" reward chest is what... ascended mats, clovers or skill tomes? Please, my bank is fully of this stuff already).
The shopping malls I frequent almost never gives me presents for merely entering them. A simple video game is thus better than reality! This is an outrage! I will sue!

Quote

Getting upset over this is along the lines of shouting abuse at the employees offering you a cookie in front of the shopping mall instead of thanking them for the added value. This is not a B2C problem, but a lack of manners.
You know the "money-saving offers" that you get in your email? Well, not anymore since nowadays we have decent spam filters. But yeah, these people really do offer you very cheap viagra. Or, maybe they really do offer you a really cheap alternative to something that you actually wanted to buy anyway. And you still don't like spam. Why don't you like a good offer? You should be thanking them for the added value! Deactivate your spam filter right now, anything else is a lack of manners!

All hail S:t B.F. :angel:


#2344530 Introducing the New Daily Achievement System

Posted raspberry jam on 16 December 2014 - 09:32 AM

View PostNerfHerder, on 16 December 2014 - 12:33 AM, said:

When you reduce the argument to "login = win game", it seems derpy. However, some players have busy lives. Ive been in the middle of my dailies and been called in to work, family stuff, etc. Now you get a reward, thats not game breaking, if you dont get time to play or have to leave in a hurry. At least we get a QoL improvement than no update at all, right?
I don't know where to begin. But I'll try to skip the part about how you literally get a reward for a repeating, repetitive quest in a game that was touted as not being repetitive and grindy (I failed, I guess), and go right on to the part where it is apparently QoL to get rewarded for not playing the game. I mean what did you pay for anyway? Not playing the game is sort of the default state that you had before even buying it! So what is being rewarded here exactly? Doing family stuff instead of playing the game? But wait... :eek: It is, isn't it?? Is this finally the Extended Experience update we've been waiting for?!?!? Of course!!!! Thank you Arenanet for rewarding us in every part of our lives!!! :angel:

View PostEl Duderino, on 16 December 2014 - 04:14 AM, said:

Seems to me if people like the game, they don't need to be incentivized just to log in.
Not be incentivized? What is this I see? Heresy?

All hail S:t B.F. :angel:


#2311792 Nexon CEO: " Going after whales is [...] misunderstanding of what [F2P]...

Posted raspberry jam on 27 March 2014 - 07:58 PM

View PostMordakai, on 27 March 2014 - 07:01 PM, said:

Allowing people to speed up a process (for a fee) that naturally happens in game is fine.
I completely disagree, good sir.

Doing that builds in a profit motive to make the game frustratingly boring to play without paying.


#2344497 Is GW2 dead now or is it just the forums?

Posted Cutthroat on 15 December 2014 - 05:06 PM

GW2 is like Finland - there are lots of introverts & melancholic people. I don't want to play a game which reminds me of real life. :P

But yeah.. I expect content for guilds; PvE & PvP instances for 10-20 people. Whatever. It's still a decent game for... chatting. Guild halls would be so great.. but I don't believe they can make GvG fun.

GW2 is dead to me till they release decent content for guilds.


#2344476 Introducing the New Daily Achievement System

Posted raspberry jam on 15 December 2014 - 11:17 AM

On second thought, I feel that this update is a bit lacking. Yes, it's all good and well to get rewarded for logging in. But what about all those players that are making their very best effort at logging in, but can't click that icon? Maybe they have Parkinsons and when they try to move their mouse cursor to the Guild Wars 2 shortcut on the desktop their hand will be like shaking all over the place and they will fail to click the right thing and because of that accidentally start up some other interesting game such as The Binding of Isaac or Notepad instead. I know that happened to me several times and I don't even have Parkinsons. I feel that these people should at least get a silver reward for attempting to participate.

tl;dr: is reward for opening Notepad a good idea? y/n