BlackBoxx

RedStar, on 19 November 2012 - 06:27 PM, said:

They were also a big mistake that ANet said they regretted.  It was part of the reason they wanted to make a new game rather than more campaigns for GW1.  Here they are, making the same mistake in a different form.  Once again, people who do not grind out the new stuff are going to be weaker than those that do.

Zippor, on 19 November 2012 - 02:13 PM, said:

Because ANet has basically said "if you don't eat this broccoli, you don't get dessert".  That kind of "discipline" is actually more likely to get children to loathe veggies, since they will perceive them as a task to get to the good stuff.  If instead, you simply put the veggies on their plate and don't draw any attention to them, children are more likely to try them of their own volition.  If they don't eat them on the first try, you respect that choice, and try again the next day with the same veggie.  Repeat until they try one and make their own decision on how they like it.  If they don't like it, don't force them to eat it.  If they do like it, victory dance in private after the meal.  

Future content will be balanced with ascended gear in mind.  That means anyone who doesn't get a set of it will be at less than peak performance.  This feels like a punishment, and makes the task of acquiring the gear less appealing.  We must get this gear if we want to stay relevant with the rest of the game, but we don't want to (some of us would rather simply play the game as it was pitched to us).  I'm fine with the idea of other people wanting more to do and acquire.  I'm not fine with more stats coming with it and one being required to do the other.  

What if ascended gear was simply an alternate tier instead of the next level up?  Say they have their increased base stats, but they don't get the built in upgrade?  Instead, they have a higher base, but their infusion upgrades leave them with less of a power gain since they have to worry about agony resistance (something which will not affect other parts of the game... yet).  The numbers can be tweaked around until they hit a point where a fully runed exotic set is just as powerful as an ascended set.  It would go from vertical progression to the horizontal progression we were promised.

As far as challenge goes, adding new gear that's more powerful actually negates the point.  You're not being challenged if the gear you get was designed to make it easier.  Would it have been so wrong if ascended gear didn't give you more stats?  That would actually be more of a challenge.  Heck, I've seen people say this stat increase won't make a difference in the long run.  Wouldn't it be more satisfying to beat it with a slightly bigger handicap?  I mean, this is all for the challenge right?  I'm just trying to help.  Or do you not like the thought that you're not so different from the people against this addition?  We both want to be as powerful as we can be.  You want the power ceiling to be somewhere else when it's all just arbitrary.  

It's fine that you like to see yourself grow more powerful.  I'm not trying to say you're wrong about that.  I'm just questioning your choice to play a game that was advertised as having a power plateau that would be easily and quickly reached.  Obviously, you know something that I don't, because your choice paid off while mine taxed my patience to bankruptcy.

Way to miss the point completely.  RPGs are not about making numbers grow indefinitely.  They are about making choices as a character, whether that be through dialog options, improvised reactions to a hypothetical situation (the only form you even bothered to address and assumed it was my entire point), or choosing abilities, stats, gear, what have you.  For most people, role-playing refers to the last set.  This is why JRPGs are even considered RPGs at all.  They usually give you no input on anything other than what skills and gear your characters get, but that's enough.

So, getting gear, allocating stats, selecting your skills, that stuff is considered role-playing.  We clear now?  MMORPGs are about doing those things with, and let me slow down here so you can catch up............ many other people.  What part of that says you must continually gain higher stats?  It's certainly a viable option, and has proven to be profitable when done right.  It is not a requirement.  It's the status quo.

By the way, there were not just a "few" GW1 players.  It sold roughly 5 million units.  Granted, that does not mean 5 million players, but it does mean it was a success.  There was absolutely no reason GW1's philosophy could not translate to a true MMO.  Clunky combat?  Fewer skills?  Poorly implemented dungeons?  All of that could be fixed in time.  A new tier with improved stats can't simply be taken out without causing even more frustration.

I must repeat something I said in another post in this thread.  No one is complaining about adding new gear, new dungeons or new events.  That's more content that everyone could at least support being added, even if individual players were not interested in participation or acquisition.  No one is opposed to progression either.  GW1 survived for years with horizontal progression.  Contrary to what you may believe, it is a real thing.  It simply means giving more options to the player without making them more powerful.  ANet could have made ascended gear with different stat allocations, but kept them within the current exotic budgets.  But no, they decided to just pump up the numbers.  So, despite being told that we could farm up our preferred set and be done for as long as the game is live, three months into the game, we are told we now have to get an entirely new set.  THIS DID NOT HAVE TO BE THE CASE!

I have not lost touch with reality, you pickle noticing paint sniffer (I like to keep things PG on the internet, but I assure you, I can come up with much better face-to-face).  In fact, I'd say you need to get that tunnel vision of yours checked out.  You see one aspect of MMO's and assume that's all there is.  You see one aspect of RPGs and assume that's all there is.  Your reality is far too tiny for you to be commenting on others' perception of it.

Jason Seven, on 17 November 2012 - 12:39 AM, said:

My goodness, you're annoying.  I can tolerate smugness from people like Raspberry Jam, who are intelligent and can actually put sound reasoning behind their posts, even if I disagree with them.  But you?  You're a broken record.  All of your bellowing comes down to one simple statement; mmorpgs are all about making numbers grow.  

That's seven different flavors of wrong right there.  MMORPGs are about role-playing with many other people in an online setting.  None of that means player characters must perpetually get higher and higher numbers on their character sheet.  Yes, the role-playing aspect of the game means there should be some sort of character development, but not that the numbers must keep increasing.  Just look at Guild Wars 1 (yes, it is an apt comparison since it's also an RPG.  the number of players able to participate in the same events at a time has no bearing on the need for bigger and better junk).  In the seven years it has been in play, not once did they add weapons with higher damage, or armor with better defenses.  They added different ways to get the maximum values, and new skins to wear, but no higher numbers.

People kept playing GW1 without stronger items to acquire.  You may not like it, but plenty of them were perfectly content to keep playing simply for different looks.  It can work.  Stat-seekers such as yourself couldn't understand that.  Worse, you wouldn't let just one game on the market be different.  You had to have your stupid gear progression, and you wouldn't shut up until you got it.  Why couldn't you just go back to the plethora of other games out there that cater to your play style?  For the novelty?  Obviously not, since you won't let GW2 be different.  The lack of monthly fee?  Not likely.  There's plenty of free to play games that go the treadmill route (Aion, SWtoR will join soon).  

People like you ruined GW2.  I hope you're happy.  Oh wait.  You got what you want.  You know how to get it again when you want more.  Of course you are!

Hector, on 15 November 2012 - 02:08 AM, said:

This a thousand times over.  No one is objecting to new gear, a new dungeon, new zones or anything.  The complaints are about the increase in stats that come with all of it.  We were told this game would not have that.  

Now, I'm not going to say ANet lied to me or anything, but the sheer fact that they abandoned the core selling point of the game that appealed to me means I have nothing left to hold onto.  I also have not logged in, despite teusday-thursday being my free block of time to play games.  On the contrary, I uninstalled the game.  If I ever want to play again, it will have to be so badly that I'm willing to go through another 8+ hour installation.  

Drastic?  Yeah.  That's just how frustrated I am with ANet changing their policies.  First it was the dye system, then it was death penalties, then it was respec costs and trainers.  Those, I could live with, but I will not participate in another endless gear grind.  I know, I know.  They said they wouldn't add any more tiers.  I don't believe that one bit.  Why should I?  They already added one due to players asking for more powerful items to go with more difficult content.  Why would these people be content with only one addition?  ANet is going to have to make this choice again, and I have no doubt they will make the same decision.