Thorfinnr

I used this build for awhile when I was learning the profession. It's very forgiving with mistakes and is nice when you are running solo.

While I disagree with the harshest critics who say its "terrible" and/or "worthless", the build does lose some of its effectiveness in a party situation. That's because it does what it does, too well...i.e might stacking. Alone, you can easily maintain 25 might stacks and perma fury. But...in a team, especially with another warrior, you are going to have serious overlap. Even a guardian is going to give 4-5 might stacks and then you have wasted potential.

Another problem is healing does not scale very well, at least with how the game is laid out. The heals you give, while they help, won't really save anyone in harder content.

When you take those factors into account, there are other builds that do better in team situations, especially since most are interested in fractals and high end dungeon instances. I think this is the segment of players from whom the build generates the most detractors.

Taking nothing away from Brand, the build is very effective if you use it in the right situation. Solo running orr or mapping/farming would be my suggestion.

All that being said, I think this thread has reached its logical end. I want to thank Brand for putting the time and effort to post about the build. This thread can always be reached from the warrior build sticky.

They can be discovered. Only the insignias/inscriptions drop. I don't think ya need a recipe for them.

Thorfinnr, on 01 May 2013 - 08:42 PM, said:

Yes it does. Dulfy tested this with the new weapon skins.

Thorfinnr, on 24 April 2013 - 04:41 PM, said:

Thought it's Rox' bow and Braham's mace & shield?

jthamind, on 24 April 2013 - 12:56 PM, said:

It's perfectly fine going full GC. If you're planning on using it in WvW, I would second Rachmani's suggestion and pair it with your D/P. You'll have a good amount of mobility, and some defensive skills (Pistol 4-5) to fall back on if you need it.

That being sad, S/D in WvW is MORE survivable than in PvE. In the latter, the mobs can track you no matter where you roll/port/evade to. It makes it rather frustrating, because much of your survivability comes from getting away from mobs or behind them, etc. In WvW, though, your opponents are going to have a MUCH harder time keeping track of you, and it'll give you some breathing room to really wear them down with Sword's AA.

brokerib, on 21 April 2013 - 10:22 AM, said:

At this point, if you are going to listen to anyone about S/D, it would be Phenn.  Not only is his theorycrafting sound, I've seen the build he runs in action and its very effective.

That being said, I would also highly suggest pairing your S/D with SB, even working with SB as your "main" weaponset.  The synergy between the two is quite incredible.  Start off at range with the SB, drop a Clusterbomb or two in a Choking Gas field, swap to S/D, pop Infiltrator's Strike, drop a Flanking Strike or two, an auto-attack chain, switch back to SB, hit #5 (Infiltrator's Arrow) and you are out of the fight again and you didn't burn your Return on InfS, giving you more mobility than before.  This is especially effective against large groups due to the fact that SB is the best AoE we have access to, maybe even one of the best ones in the game at this current moment.

I realize the post wasn't 100% on topic, but I've seen the S/D work wonders with the SB, moreso than other weapon-sets that I've played with.

Hope this helps!

Dakkaface, on 18 April 2013 - 10:52 PM, said:

Pretty standard glass cannon set up! I'd stick with what you have trait-wise. Practiced Tolerance will net you approximately 1k hp which isn't worth it. If you're going down, you're going down. So don't bother with that trait.

I like your set up--it's very similar to mine that I run with S/D. To that end, I think you'll actually be better served by using swords mainhand over dagger, or running D/P. Both S/D, S/P, and D/P benefit from a high-initiative, high-damage AA build.

As for gear, I'd go all Zerker. If you wanted some survivability, take some Valkyrie pieces, but only enough to get you to a comfortable level. As you learn the nuances of the build you choose/stick with, you'll be able to move toward all-Zerker.

Check out this thread on S/D if you want some input on that playstyle.

Check out this thread if you want to change it up a bit and go all ranged.

T6 Mat Farm Guide

(hopefully, this is in the right place!)

Much like many players, I'm dirt poor. I developed these runs in conjunction with a freind of mine, Handmade. We're both working on legendaries, and realized farming our stuff would be much cheaper (obviously). Some of these farms are known, others maybe not. But now, you all know either way!

Now, why would someone want to farm T6's when they could just do CoF P1 runs and buy them? Well, because not only does this give you a direct farm for specific mats, but it also helps prevent inflation (especially if you sell the mats). So, not only are you making money/saving money, you're helping prevent the increase price of T6 mats and generally helping the economy.

You may have seen this guide on the Sea of Sorrows Server forum, or on Reddit. This is the same guide (which I wrote), but now it's updated and ready for the publics consumption.

This guide includes farms for:

+ Karka Shells
+ Armored Scales
+ Vicious Fangs
+ Ancient Bone
+ Vials of Powerful Blood
+ Elaborate Totems
+ Powerful Venom Sacs
+ Vicious Claws
+ Piles of Crystalline Dust

Non T6 Mats included:
+ Corrupted Lodestone
+ Charged Lodestone
+ Onyx Lodestone

It's an ever-developing guide, so check back every-so-often for any updates. When it is updated though, I will make a post stating what was changed.

Some things to note:
+ If the farming zone is full of bots, report them and try guesting on another server!
+ MF is highly recommended. I personally use Spicy Pumpkin Cookies. But any MF Consumable is good.
+ These are developed to be "semi afkable" so you don't really have to worry about dieing unless you really aren't paying attention.

Vicious Fang/Vials of Powerful Blood Farm

Here you will be killing Reef Skelk. Handmade and I basically run from the Cove north up the beach and back down, very simple.

Recommended Skills:
+ Speed Buffs (Signet of the Hunt, Signet of Shadow, Rampage as One, for example)
+ AoE Damage Skills (Any Ele, dagger storm, whirling axe)

There is no Veterans on this run. Average in 45 minutes was about 5-10 of each Vicious Fangs and Vials of Powerful Blood.

Powerful Venom Sac Farm

Here you are killing Reef Riders (and young Reef Riders). We basically run around in a circle. Killing all the comes in our path.

Recommended Skills:
+ Speed Buffs (Same as above)

There is 2 Veterans for this. Fights are straight forward. Watch for confusion and a reflection dome that they create. It will reflect all projectiles.

Vicious Claw and Ancient Bone Farms

Here you are killing the Ice Brood Colossus and Corrupted Quaggan.

Recommended Skills:
+ Speed Buffs (Same as above)
+ The ability to dodge

Other noted drops:
+ Corrupted Lodestone

There are no veterans along this path.

Elaborate Totem/Ancient Bone Farm

Here you are killing the Grawl

Recommended Skills:
+ Speed Buffs
+ AoE Damage
+ AoE Pulls (Binding Chains, for example)

There are no veterans along this path.

Piles of Crystalline Dust/Charged Lodestone + Other Lodestones

(First picture) Here you are primarily killing the Sparks and Air Elementals (Veterans). There is also Ice Elementals (Corrupted Lodestone) and Embers (Onyx Lodestone, possibly Molten) within the ring. There are multiple Veterans. You will need to open the Temple of Lyssa for this one.

(Second Picture) Here you are killing ONLY Sparks and Air Elementals. There is four total veterans. An event will spawn where a champion risen knight will appear. You will need to open the Temple of Dwayna for this one.

** The drop rate on the Charged Lodestone is low (as compared to say, the Corrupted Lodestones). The drop rate on the Crystalline dust is kind-of low, but factoring in the amount of incandescent dust that drops, the value of charged lodestones and the value of the Crystalline dust, we figure it's still a decent farm. Shocking Crystals are dropped often, and add up quickly, which can be sold for a few silver after every 30-40 minutes.

Recommended Skills:
+ Speed Buffs (Same as above)

Armored Scales

Here you are killing the Barracuda, Sea Turtles and Sea Scorpions.  They are in the water behind the boat. A Black Lion trader is located right above you for easy disposal of goods.

Recommended Skills:
+ Grenade Kit for Engie's is superb here
+ Ranger Spear Gun is also great (it's what I use)
+ General High damage aquatic skills

Karka Shell/Vials of Powerful Blood

Here you are killing the Karka for the shells. With the May 14th Southsun update, Veteran Karka always drop 1 to 2 Karka shells. You really need a group to make this farm super effective. Follow the path, and by the time you complete the circle, the champion will respawn, and between going into the hive and coming back out, the veterans outside will have respawn. In 3 hours with a large zerg I was able to get 100+ karka shells. Smaller groups will get a little less due to speed.

Recommended Skills:
+ This really is a group farm to be effective
+ AoE skills and survival skills are extremely useful
+ The ability to dodge Karka Rolls.

Other notes
+ Don't forget, you can promote T5 materials to T6 ones!
+ Bring a friend! Having someone else to chat with/run with makes things less dull!
+ Listen to music!

Eon Lilu, on 15 April 2013 - 07:06 PM, said:

It's cosmetic and convenient items as it's been since day 1 - so I don't really see how it's a slippery slope with the mining pick.

They sure can * off with their RNG bullshit though. Refusing to buy anything that has an RNG element in the cash shop - I mean, seriously - whose idea was that? "Hey, wouldn't it be cool if people didn't know what item X costs? I mean, we could make it so that some people get it for 5€, some don't get it at all even if they spend 200€ on it LOL and most of it in between! Wouldn't that be like super exciting and fun for our customers?"

Sometimes you just got to wonder how that even makes it past the brainstorming with a straight face on Devs faces...

The pick is fine though - it's utterly convenient and I really like the animation, it won't pay off right away,hell - maybe it won't EVER pay off, but the fact that I don't have to think about recharging them, is enough. 10 € sure is steep though but oh well.

Loperdos, on 13 April 2013 - 09:21 PM, said:

I'll chime in and say it is quite fun how well it works. Between InfS and Loperdos' SB mobility, we're rarely in one place for very long, which means mobs never really have a chance to lock us down. The one time it happened a couple days ago, I dropped iHouse a split second before Loperdos dropped a Clusterbomb. Instead of exploding it, he let it land and bam! Instant AoE blindness allowing me to get out. I have a feeling with practice we could do some pretty fun stuff in WvW. At the very least troll people to death.

Thorfinnr, on 15 April 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

Definitely try Loperdos' build. It's strangely addicting.

Loperdos, on 15 April 2013 - 03:01 PM, said:

Honestly, I've never let myself use defensive stats on my thieves. And I wouldn't claim to have greased-lightning-monkey-muscles either. But with Loper's build, you definitely won't need them (a la stealth and blinds).

Rachmani, on 13 April 2013 - 01:25 AM, said:

Thanks for the input, appreciate it!

Fun little update, Phenn and I have actually been running dual thieves in Orr as of late and have found that the S/D build that he's running works almost perfectly with my ranged thief build.  The combination of an opening Infiltrator's Strike plus Choking Gas + Clusterbomb and things drop CRAZY fast, its kinda ridiculous.  A ranged thief build plus the S/D build seem to work really well together, most likely because of how they are both very reliant on mobility.  As I'm kiting the baddies, Phenn swoops in and drops a few big hits like InfS or FS then hops out; the mob then turns towards him and I finish off the mob with either my P/P or with the SB...I'm really kinda surprised how well the two builds work together, tbh.

You could get the exotic cavalier's backpiece, thats about the only thing worth getting from there until you get an ascended one from fotm.  The rest of your armor and trinkets should be the right stuff.

Thorfinnr, on 12 April 2013 - 06:53 PM, said:

^^ Heheh SB mayhem!

I have yet to really figure out/decide/....(having trouble thinking of the word lol) whether or not its better to pick up survivability on a thief via the side effect of traiting down either SA or Acro, or investing some stat points from your armor into it.  I would definitely say (as I have a few times before) that Valk is probably the best choice for a dmg focused thief to invest in if the person feels it necessary to pick up some survivability, just based off the stat spread compared to our other choices of armor...but is it really better to invest in armor stats and take the hit in stats there, or take a little bit of a hit to your dmg stats (and maybe lose out on a dmg trait, which you could probably make up) and trait down either SA or Acro?

Honestly, don't know at this point, there seem to be at least a decent amount of factors going into the decision.  Granted, its generally a bad idea to trait down a line ONLY for the benefit to the stats, but neither the Acro or the SA line suffer from that, even on a dmg focused thief (Fluid Strikes + Power of Inertia for Acro and SB %dmg + Might on Stealth for SA) because there are traits that can help make up the loss of power from DA...

Just kinda thinking out loud here, perhaps once I get some time, I'll actually sit down and compare and see which comes out on top!

I would like to see:

Engineer with Hammer (demolition skills), mace (wrench?) similar to tool kit but more focused on supporting your turrets, maybe giving them buffs or upgrading them? (tf2 like)

hammer on the necromancer (also I think they should use GS and sword), I see some traits in the necro oriented to become a "dark knight" So I believe a hammer could fit there, also the mace if you recall Elder Scrolls's daedra (mace of molag bal?)

I see in no way a ranger using a hammer, but I believe they should use rifle and a pistol too.

Of course I agree with guardian using a bow, either will do, firing holy arrows and an anti-condition based set of skills.
Also I think they should use spear, on land.

I dont see a thief using a mace, but I believe they should use torch.

To the mesmer I think I would add the  hammer, but honestly, I'm fine if they don't add anything to them haha.

I would really like to see longbow on the elementalist, for a longer ranged set of combo fields, and elemental rains. I wont add the hammer to them, I think the conjured hammer is enough (not like the conjured bow, where I would like to see other elements in that style too). Edit: Just for the sake of it, I will elaborate more on this.

What I am missing from the elementalist is: More storms (both water and lightning), heat waves and ash/volcanic rain (fire), and Sand! I would really like to see more sand oriented skills.

UPDATE: Having no vitality or toughness sucks.

After running in some end-game areas, I've decided that I'm playing the 25/30/0/0/15 build wrong, or it has absolutely no survival. A few things contribute to the issue:

1. With no vitality or toughness boost from the other trait lines, it only takes a few hits before I go down.
2. That being said, it's not as easy to avoid being hit as I thought. Like Thorfinnr's said, the mob will follow you through your FS strike, and often hit you right as you're finishing the move. Additionally, I'm taking hits in the middle of the port on InfS, and that sucks, too.
3. The sword hits hard, IF you can get a whole rotation in. But in order to not take damage, you just can't.

I'm beginning to think the max-DPS S/D build is REALLY a SB build that uses S/D to supplement in the damage department. Which is how Thornfinnr intended it, I believe.

So I'm going to try out a mobility build that looks like 0/30/25/0/15. Still not relying on CnD and TS, but taking the cool-downs on stealth utilities, toughness, and might-stacking. Ironically, it looks a lot like Loperdos' SB build.

On a hopeful note, the devs mentioned in the official forums reverting the 4-second Revealed change back to 3 seconds.